mweir145 wrote:Another one of the reasons I hate Boston...they always make good cost-effective signings.
Hopefully they'll make a mistake soon (might they re-sign Varitek because of his "leadership" qualities?).
Man that is such a tough call. As a sox fan I am torn. Tek is a leader, but how long do you hang on to that. He contributes nothing to the offense anymore. It is borderline sad to watch him at the plate. I loved tek he is a class act all the way, but it is time to let that ship sail I believe.
Surprised that no one is talking about LA here. Pretty much locks Broxton into the closer role. I had heard rumblings that Saito might be given the closer role back because he has the experience. Could be a decent signing but I really doubt that he stays off the DL this year.
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."- Douglas Adams
AquaMan2342 wrote: There's considerable reason to believe that CC and Burnett (especially) are both injury risks.
Sure, but are we really drawing comparisons between Sabathia/Burnett and Smoltz/Saito?
Not talent-wise, but the Sox are paying a minimal fraction of the cost for two players who if they end up being healthy, could potentially contribute at a level THIS YEAR near AJ/CC.
And if teams thought the odds of that were good, those players would have fetched more than they did. And as you said, those investments are 1-year gambles, while the Yankee signings are long-term investments.
My point is that, whether you think they were good or bad, the Yankee signings are completely different than the Red Sox signings.
I definitely think the combination of the signings of Smoltz/Penny to the rotation and Saito as well as the trade for Ramon Ramirez means they are prepping to deal Masterson to the Rangers for one of their three catchers. I could definitely see a Masterson for Max Ramirez deal coming about since I imagine the Rangers would prefer Buchholz to Masterson and the Sox would prefer Teagarden to Ramirez/Salty I think they'll find middle ground. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see Bard as an everyday catcher in Boston and I think the Sox would rather sacrifice the "leadership" qualities of Varitek for a bat that isn't like plugging a pitcher into the lineup.
All in all I think the quantity of signings with incentive based contracts makes the Sox a serious contender in the East once again this year. Sure some regression is certainly possible from Lester/Pedroia but how about a rebound from Ortiz? How about continued development from Ellsbury/Lowry? Maybe the unthinkable happens and Drew is able to accumulate over 450 AB's like he did in 06 and 07? Or what about Mike Lowell posting numbers somewhere between 06 (his first year in Boston) and 07, his big year in Boston. A lot of variables to the Sox lineup, but a very stable bullpen and a deep rotation with a solid amount of upside. Also, the sheer volume of starters they have means that when teams undoubtedly are looking to acquire arms at the deadline, the Sox may have some trade bait to bolster their team as well.
Call me crazy, but I think the Red Sox are the favorites in the AL-East with the Rays a solid second and the Yankees still 3rd. Yankees fans have to be thrilled with Tex and C.C. but Melky was awful last year, Matsui was dinged up and is not getting younger, Posada missed most of last year and plays the most demanding position on the field and Nady had a career year. The top of the Yankees order is downright scary, but I just don't see the depth, and most importantly I don't see the depth in the rotation or the bullpen. Who is the bridge to the 9th for Mo? Can Joba hold up for a full season as a starter? How will Hughes rebound from being hurt/ineffective for almost all of last year? Get beyond C.C. and Burnett and I'm not a huge Wang fan with an aging Jeter at SS with limited range and an average at best 2B in Cano behind a GB pitcher. Burnett is a health risk every year, and has never responded well following a 200+ IP season and missed a great deal of the year following signing a fat contract with the Jays. Hughes has a great deal of talent, but will he begin fullfilling it this season or not? If any of the starters go down, are any Yankee fans actually delighted with the idea of Ian Kennedy or Sergio Mitre (post suspension) filling that hole? Too many glaring question marks for me.
I also think the Rays offense catches up to its defense and pitching this year. Pat the Bat is a huge upgrade over the mess they trotted out at DH last year (Floyd, Gomes, Aybar, etc.). Upton had offseason surgery to repair his labrum, so he could show some of the pop he had in '07, and some growth with more experience has to be expected. Longoria has a chance to continue to improve at the dish, and will be up all year, and possibly healthy all year as well. Price in the rotation should be a HUGE upgrade over Edwin Jackson who was borderline worthless. They do have a huge question mark as to who will close in '09 since I'm not entirely sold on Balfour/Wheeler/Percival/Howell in a closer roll. However, I do like Balfour/Wheeler/Howell in the pen, especially if one of them siezes the closer roll and runs with it, or if they happen to acquire a veteran closer (another reason I think the Sox signed Saito, though I never heard rumors of him signing there). As others have said, the AL East should be interesting (and I'm a Giants fan, so no homerism coming from this guy )
B-Chad wrote:I definitely think the combination of the signings of Smoltz/Penny to the rotation and Saito as well as the trade for Ramon Ramirez means they are prepping to deal Masterson to the Rangers for one of their three catchers. I could definitely see a Masterson for Max Ramirez deal coming about since I imagine the Rangers would prefer Buchholz to Masterson and the Sox would prefer Teagarden to Ramirez/Salty I think they'll find middle ground. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see Bard as an everyday catcher in Boston and I think the Sox would rather sacrifice the "leadership" qualities of Varitek for a bat that isn't like plugging a pitcher into the lineup.
I'd be shocked/pissed if they dealt Masterson for Max Ramirez. At this point, he's a proven commodity who I think can be a very good #2 or #3 SP in another year or two and I'd value him nearly as high as Buchholz or Bowden. I don't think his upside is as big as those guys, but I'm almost positive his downside isn't either.
B-Chad wrote:All in all I think the quantity of signings with incentive based contracts makes the Sox a serious contender in the East once again this year. Sure some regression is certainly possible from Lester/Pedroia but how about a rebound from Ortiz? How about continued development from Ellsbury/Lowry? Maybe the unthinkable happens and Drew is able to accumulate over 450 AB's like he did in 06 and 07? Or what about Mike Lowell posting numbers somewhere between 06 (his first year in Boston) and 07, his big year in Boston. A lot of variables to the Sox lineup, but a very stable bullpen and a deep rotation with a solid amount of upside. Also, the sheer volume of starters they have means that when teams undoubtedly are looking to acquire arms at the deadline, the Sox may have some trade bait to bolster their team as well.
Overall I agree with this assessment in that there are some big question marks in the lineup, but I really don't understand the idea that Lester might regress. I think its just as likely that he continues to develop into a bonafide ace (Also, I can't see much more out of Lowrie - nice utility guy, but not much more, though I hope I'm wrong).
"The government cannot give to anyone anything that it does not first take from someone else"
B-Chad wrote:Call me crazy, but I think the Red Sox are the favorites in the AL-East with the Rays a solid second and the Yankees still 3rd. Yankees fans have to be thrilled with Tex and C.C. but Melky was awful last year, Matsui was dinged up and is not getting younger, Posada missed most of last year and plays the most demanding position on the field and Nady had a career year. The top of the Yankees order is downright scary, but I just don't see the depth, and most importantly I don't see the depth in the rotation or the bullpen. Who is the bridge to the 9th for Mo? Can Joba hold up for a full season as a starter? How will Hughes rebound from being hurt/ineffective for almost all of last year? Get beyond C.C. and Burnett and I'm not a huge Wang fan with an aging Jeter at SS with limited range and an average at best 2B in Cano behind a GB pitcher. Burnett is a health risk every year, and has never responded well following a 200+ IP season and missed a great deal of the year following signing a fat contract with the Jays. Hughes has a great deal of talent, but will he begin fullfilling it this season or not? If any of the starters go down, are any Yankee fans actually delighted with the idea of Ian Kennedy or Sergio Mitre (post suspension) filling that hole? Too many glaring question marks for me.
Obviously the Yankees have question marks, but so does Boston. As I said, it wouldn't surprise me to see either team win the World Series or miss the playoffs entirely. At the moment, Boston doesn't have a catcher. Many expect regression from Pedroia and even Youkilis. Ortiz is old and a significant risk to break down. As is Lowell. How productive will Ellsbury and Lowrie be over a full year? Can Beckett stay healthy?
The one significant advantage I give Boston is their depth. I like these signings they've made because they've built a stockpile of arms to defend against injuries. But the Yankees might not be done. Bringing Pettitte back gives them another arm and more depth.
I don't know how anyone can call anyone the favorites right now without making a lot of assumptions. All three teams have a ton of talent but also several question marks.
BronXBombers51 wrote:I don't know how anyone can call anyone the favorites right now without making a lot of assumptions. All three teams have a ton of talent but also several question marks.
Agreed on this. If anything, the Sox have made a better case for themselves to be included in the talks of winning the division. With the Rays as incumbent second placers and the Yanks with their supreme acquisitions, everyone was looking sad around Boston. The bandwagoners probably still are, but those who know these guys that got picked up have to feel pretty good about a solid competitive year for the Sox.
The catcher situation is still iffy, true, but would it be conceivable to pick up a young guy that has potential to try and drive Boras/Varitek's price down? At some point in the next couple of years the team will not have Varitek's wisdom behind the plate one way or another due to his age, so perhaps they're thinking now is the time to move on (or appear to move on). If Varitek wants in on a lower price or contract, the Sox drop/shop Bard (like the Yanks with Swisher). If he doesn't, hope for the best with the new guys. Without much of a market, I don't know if Boras has much of a choice anymore.
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by bucksox » Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:13 pm 
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