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Re: Be careful what you wish for... [salary cap]

Postby San D » Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:56 pm

noseeum wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:
San D wrote:What really needs to be done is a salary system needs to be applied to the draft so the worst teams actually draft the best players. This is what owners should really be pushing for to try and equalize the playing field a bit.


Hallelujah!

;-D


I disagree. If you can't pony up $8 or 9 million for a top 5 pick that has huge potential, than you have no business having a baseball team. Gimme a break. These guys get $8 million and then their salaries are locked down for 6 years on top of however many they spend in the minors. These baseball teams are the cheapest mofos in sports. They have an artificially reduced salary for 6 years, an anti-trust exemption, a local monopoly, and yet they want a salary cap and a cap on signing bonuses for draftees? It's not enough that they've got exclusive negotiating rights, and the only choice the player has is to take the money or risk everything by waiting another year to re-enter the draft?

I can understand not wanting to pay market rates through free agency, but by the time a player has become a free agent, he's been in pro baseball for at least 8 years most times. For some of them, their only significant paycheck is from the draft. Pay up, owners. If you let a stud prospect go over $2 million, you deserve to stink.


Your logic makes sense to me, but (without analyzing balance sheets) spending less seems to be the way a small market team makes the most profits (therefore, they all spend less). Baseball is still a business. To get teams to all spend, there would have to be some type of major restructuring and this would be a difficult undertaking.

An enforced draft slotting system would be a much easier system to apply. Sure, there are issues there as well for the owners to sort out, but if owners really care about getting the playing system equalized, they should grab the low hanging fruit that is easier to attain and pursue slotting.
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Re: Be careful what you wish for... [salary cap]

Postby thedude » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:20 pm

The best solution is to have one corporation that owns and runs every team, therefore all revenues are shared and each team acts for the common good of maximizing profits. Of course the problem then arises of how do you run the baseball operations of each team...
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Re: Be careful what you wish for... [salary cap]

Postby noseeum » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:43 pm

thedude wrote:The best solution is to have one corporation that owns and runs every team, therefore all revenues are shared and each team acts for the common good of maximizing profits. Of course the problem then arises of how do you run the baseball operations of each team...


What evidence do you have this is true. If all teams were owned by one entity than competition would be an illusion. Collusion would be an inherent part of the system. This is a very very bad idea.
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Re: Be careful what you wish for... [salary cap]

Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:49 pm

As an economist I have to agree that the solution is NOT a monopoly structure. That's part of the problem now.
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Re: Be careful what you wish for... [salary cap]

Postby thedude » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:50 pm

noseeum wrote:
thedude wrote:The best solution is to have one corporation that owns and runs every team, therefore all revenues are shared and each team acts for the common good of maximizing profits. Of course the problem then arises of how do you run the baseball operations of each team...


What evidence do you have this is true. If all teams were owned by one entity than competition would be an illusion. Collusion would be an inherent part of the system. This is a very very bad idea.



I said i would be the most economically efficient method of running the game, with the highest profits for the owners and least amount of waste. But trying to make sure that there was fair competition presents the biggest problems and is one reason why it would hard to make it work.
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Re: Be careful what you wish for... [salary cap]

Postby thedude » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:52 pm

GotowarMissAgnes wrote:As an economist I have to agree that the solution is NOT a monopoly structure. That's part of the problem now.


If there was perfect competition there would be no teams in most cities that currently have teams. No royals, no Marlins, no Rays, Pirates, ect... New York would have many more than 2 teams. The cartel aspect of the game is what is required for it function.
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Re: Be careful what you wish for... [salary cap]

Postby noseeum » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:19 pm

thedude wrote:
noseeum wrote:
thedude wrote:The best solution is to have one corporation that owns and runs every team, therefore all revenues are shared and each team acts for the common good of maximizing profits. Of course the problem then arises of how do you run the baseball operations of each team...


What evidence do you have this is true. If all teams were owned by one entity than competition would be an illusion. Collusion would be an inherent part of the system. This is a very very bad idea.



I said i would be the most economically efficient method of running the game, with the highest profits for the owners and least amount of waste. But trying to make sure that there was fair competition presents the biggest problems and is one reason why it would hard to make it work.


Well, that's not really what you said. You said "the best solution..." If it's the best solution, the problems it creates are worth accepting when compared to other solutions. But we'll go with this new one now. :-D
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Re: Be careful what you wish for... [salary cap]

Postby BronXBombers51 » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:23 pm

thedude wrote:
GotowarMissAgnes wrote:As an economist I have to agree that the solution is NOT a monopoly structure. That's part of the problem now.


If there was perfect competition there would be no teams in most cities that currently have teams. No royals, no Marlins, no Rays, Pirates, ect... New York would have many more than 2 teams. The cartel aspect of the game is what is required for it function.


So why not leave baseball the way it is and put another franchise in New York or New England to dilute the market? Wouldn't that do some good?
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Re: Be careful what you wish for... [salary cap]

Postby noseeum » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:34 pm

thedude wrote:
GotowarMissAgnes wrote:As an economist I have to agree that the solution is NOT a monopoly structure. That's part of the problem now.


If there was perfect competition there would be no teams in most cities that currently have teams. No royals, no Marlins, no Rays, Pirates, ect... New York would have many more than 2 teams. The cartel aspect of the game is what is required for it function.


The Marlins are not a small market team. They're a terribly run team from a revenue standpoint. They're market size is right in line with Houston, Atlanta, Arizona, Seattle. Baseball would function fine without teams in Kansas City, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, and Cincinnati.

I've said this before, but most teams do a terrible job of developing their markets. Other than the Yankees and Mets, there are 9 teams in a larger market than the Red Sox. http://www.baseball-almanac.com/article ... kets.shtml All of those teams should be modeling themselves after the Red Sox, attempting to build a rabid following, planning to lose money some years in order to help build that following, and considering it an investment in their future. All of these teams have untapped revenue, as the Sox are the number 2 revenue generating team despite the smaller market that they are in.

Further down the tier, the Cardinals also do a great job of maximizing revenue, matching teams like the Giants and Phillies, who are in much larger markets. Smaller market teams should study the Cardinals.

http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/16/mlb-te ... ide_2.html
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Re: Be careful what you wish for... [salary cap]

Postby noseeum » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:36 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
thedude wrote:
GotowarMissAgnes wrote:As an economist I have to agree that the solution is NOT a monopoly structure. That's part of the problem now.


If there was perfect competition there would be no teams in most cities that currently have teams. No royals, no Marlins, no Rays, Pirates, ect... New York would have many more than 2 teams. The cartel aspect of the game is what is required for it function.


So why not leave baseball the way it is and put another franchise in New York or New England to dilute the market? Wouldn't that do some good?


New England can't support, or shouldn't have to support, another team. See my last post. It's not that large of a market when compared to many others.

New York could definitely support another team, but due to anti-trust exemption, it won't happen. The Yankees and Mets would need a huge payment to make it happen.
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