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Keeper conversion

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Keeper conversion

Postby WittyC » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:15 pm

I've been commissioner of a "friends" league for going on six years now. This year things finally started feeling a bit stale, so we decided to convert to a keeper league. Here's the format:

12-team, H2H, 5x5, live auction, $260 cap, Yahoo!
Positions: C, 1B, 2B, SS, 3B, CI, MI, 4 OF, Util, 3 SP, 3 RP, 3 P, 3 BN, DL

Each team is allowed 5 keepers at the conclusion of the season for $3 over the previous year's auction value (ex: Purchase Pujols for $40 in '08, keep him for $43 in '09, $46 in '10, etc.). Any player not purchased at auction can be kept for $8 ($5 value + $3 increase) at the end of the year.

This is (almost) the same format as another league I've been in for three years, and I really like it. Here are my questions:

1) Should I make mid-season call-ups "unkeepable?" I think it's silly to let waiver wire priority decide who gets to keep Jay Bruce for $8. The rule would be that any player not in the Yahoo! universe to start the season is not eligible as a keeper.
2) Should I up the year-to-year dollar increase? By the third year in my other league, some teams had really pulled away due to having exceptional bargains on their keepers. While I want teams to be rewarded for their foresight, I also don't want one team to dominate the league year in and year out. Would $4 be more appropriate?

Your help is appreciated! :-]
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Re: Keeper conversion

Postby Matthias » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:48 pm

WittyC wrote:1) Should I make mid-season call-ups "unkeepable?" I think it's silly to let waiver wire priority decide who gets to keep Jay Bruce for $8. The rule would be that any player not in the Yahoo! universe to start the season is not eligible as a keeper.

No. You should let people bid on any minor-leaguer they want and then put in a placeholder. If they want to burn a spot on someone who's still in AAA, that's their business.
WittyC wrote:2) Should I up the year-to-year dollar increase? By the third year in my other league, some teams had really pulled away due to having exceptional bargains on their keepers. While I want teams to be rewarded for their foresight, I also don't want one team to dominate the league year in and year out. Would $4 be more appropriate?

I do $3 increase the first year, $5 increase in year 2 (so $8 total), and then $10 (on top of that) every year after that. That setup seems to work fine.
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Re: Keeper conversion

Postby Curtis Pride » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:06 am

I think this could be solved by having free agents kept at $15 in stead of $8 (or not keepable). The point of keeper leagues for the most part is to draft well. The guy who sits online all day and picks up the next closer or minor league prospect isn't really doing it.

If they thought Bruce was going to be a monster, they could have / should have drafted him for $1 at the auction.

Moving up $3 or $5 isn't that huge of a deal, one way to keep things fresh is to put a limit on how many years a player can be kept. If you make it so nobody can be kept for more than 3 years, then the rest of the league won't be bored/annoyed that they won't have a chance to own Lincecum, Braun, or Longoria for the next 10 years.
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Re: Keeper conversion

Postby fast dogs » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:04 am

1 league we made call ups after the All Star game twice as expensive to keep as tho picked up before. You could say you only get to keep a guy 1 more year if he wasn't in the auction. you are right, you don't want the league to know they'll never get their hands on the next Longoria if 1 owner gets to keep him forever. I'd also find a way around yahoos refusal to add minor leaguers to the game until they've been up a few games. Just because yahoo doesn't give you the option, doesn't mean the league has to be played that way.
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Re: Keeper conversion

Postby tavo2311 » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:48 am

My keeper league does not allow anyone not drafted to be kept. This as you mention rewards the planners and not the luck. It also leaves players back in the pool for next years draft. As for the increases, you can put a maximum length. We can only keep players for 3 years. Then back to the pool. One exception, is if traded, contract resets. This accomplishes two things. It adds to trade activity, as you are trying to get something for CC before the trade deadline this year before just losing him outright. Also, while the player doesn't go back to the pool, it does get him on another team. So the same guy cant have Hanley Ramirez for 10 years. He may never reach the draft pool, but someone else will have him. These two rules keep the draft pool exciting with young up and comers, and the trade activity very high, both midseason and off season. Note - We don't let someone be kept after being dropped either, even if originally drafted. So this way, you drop Pujols cause out for the year or something, last place teams aren't picking him up and fielding a team of DL's late in the year, which affects playoff races. So even if drafted, once dropped, back to the player pool even if picked back up.
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Re: Keeper conversion

Postby Matthias » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:39 pm

I personally really dislike fixed-year keeper limits. I much rather just make it increasingly expensive and painful for someone to be kept, but if someone wants to pay $65 to keep Pujols or whoever, that's their business. If you think about and tweak the escalation dollars, then you're perfectly able to reward an owner who drafted for the future while still creating a reasonable limit on how long he can profitably hold someone.
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Re: Keeper conversion

Postby WittyC » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:22 pm

Some very good points. Thanks so much for the feedback. I think I've just got some thinking to do. :-?
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Re: Keeper conversion

Postby tavo2311 » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:02 pm

Matthias wrote:I personally really dislike fixed-year keeper limits. I much rather just make it increasingly expensive and painful for someone to be kept, but if someone wants to pay $65 to keep Pujols or whoever, that's their business. If you think about and tweak the escalation dollars, then you're perfectly able to reward an owner who drafted for the future while still creating a reasonable limit on how long he can profitably hold someone.


I agree with this point, and I am in a league that has such a system. Unfortunately the keeper league I run has no salary cap so there is really no increasingly expensive system to implement.
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Re: Keeper conversion

Postby Schwetty Balls » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:12 pm

Our league made the switch to a keeper league and an auction 2 years ago. Moving to an auction was the best thing we ever did IMO.

As for keepers, we decided that players could be kept at thier auction prices for 2 additional years. After that they had to go back into the auction pool.

For any undrafted/auctioned players. They can be a keeper next year. After much deliberation and bickering we decided that they could be kept at the price projected for them in the following years Sporting News Fantasy Baseball Guide. For example Alexi Ramirez is $19 this year.

We also allow teams to buy minor leaguers if they choose. The only problem is that they are typically not listed in the Yahoo player database.
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Re: Keeper conversion

Postby dmendro » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:09 pm

Matthias wrote:
WittyC wrote:1) Should I make mid-season call-ups "unkeepable?" I think it's silly to let waiver wire priority decide who gets to keep Jay Bruce for $8. The rule would be that any player not in the Yahoo! universe to start the season is not eligible as a keeper.

No. You should let people bid on any minor-leaguer they want and then put in a placeholder. If they want to burn a spot on someone who's still in AAA, that's their business.
WittyC wrote:2) Should I up the year-to-year dollar increase? By the third year in my other league, some teams had really pulled away due to having exceptional bargains on their keepers. While I want teams to be rewarded for their foresight, I also don't want one team to dominate the league year in and year out. Would $4 be more appropriate?

I do $3 increase the first year, $5 increase in year 2 (so $8 total), and then $10 (on top of that) every year after that. That setup seems to work fine.



Our league does somthing similar to this incremental raise. We do $5 increase at end of first year, $10 the following year, and $15 the third year and $5 each year after. We kind of end load the forst 3 years to get elite $1 pickups (evan longoria) up to close to their elite status without bogging down the owner in the later years. However, FA elite players that get into the draft every year (a-Rod, pujols, etc.) are really going ot make owners thnk about keeping them any longer then 1 year. Thus we get a constant influx of elite level keepers in the auction draft and owners constantly looking for bargains that are much more strategic to keep.

So, just as an example, if you drafted Ryan Braun 2 years ago for $1 this is how his salries have been adjusted:

2007
$1
2008
$6
2009
$16
2010
$31
2011
$36

etc. etc.

A-Rod was like this
2007
$41
2008
$46
2009
$56
2010
$71
2011
$75

Now, we have a 30 man roster size (no DL though) and a $300 cap though, so adjust for your league as neccesary.
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