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Pat the Ray

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Re: Pat the Ray

Postby Neato Torpedo » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:57 pm

GotowarMissAgnes wrote:At SS, improvement, assuming Jeter stays healthy and rebounds.

lol

Improvement on the condition of improvement. I love it!
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Re: Pat the Ray

Postby AquaMan2342 » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:32 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:


Adding Tex and realizing that Cano's periphs point to a really unlucky year I believe outweighs the losses of Abreu and Giambi.


Rather than jusy cherry pick, go through the whole team. At catcher, you'd expect improvement, assuming you can get more games out of Posada. At 1B, improvement. At 2b, improvement. At SS, improvement, assuming Jeter stays healthy and rebounds. At 3B, about the same, as ARod was right on his career averages. At CF, an improvement, but only at significant cost to the defense. If you improve the defense with Gardner, then no improvement. At LF, a decline, as 2007 was Damon's almost his best year ever. At RF a decline, as none of Abreu's replacements match is offense. At DH, a decline, as Matsui's projections fall short of what the Yanks got last year. I see 5 improvements and 3 declines, but 2 of the improvements are quite health dependent and 1 of them relies on creating a gaping hole in a key defensive position. A better offense, in all likelihood, but not one that tops the AL, and unlikely to be one that tops Boston.


Just curious GTWMA, could you do the same type of analysis for Boston? Ortiz and Lowell are both aging, they don't have a catcher and it seems questionable that Pedroia can repeat last year's numbers. I'm not saying they aren't strong, I'm just wondering what your take on their lineup is.


I was wondering the same thing. Ortiz's health is a HUGE question and without him at full health there's no way this lineup even approaches TB or NY.
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Re: Pat the Ray

Postby jake_harv88 » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:46 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
GotowarMissAgnes wrote:Rather than jusy cherry pick, go through the whole team. At catcher, you'd expect improvement, assuming you can get more games out of Posada. At 1B, improvement. At 2b, improvement. At SS, improvement, assuming Jeter stays healthy and rebounds. At 3B, about the same, as ARod was right on his career averages. At CF, an improvement, but only at significant cost to the defense. If you improve the defense with Gardner, then no improvement. At LF, a decline, as 2007 was Damon's almost his best year ever. At RF a decline, as none of Abreu's replacements match is offense. At DH, a decline, as Matsui's projections fall short of what the Yanks got last year. I see 5 improvements and 3 declines, but 2 of the improvements are quite health dependent and 1 of them relies on creating a gaping hole in a key defensive position. A better offense, in all likelihood, but not one that tops the AL, and unlikely to be one that tops Boston.


Just curious GTWMA, could you do the same type of analysis for Boston? Ortiz and Lowell are both aging, they don't have a catcher and it seems questionable that Pedroia can repeat last year's numbers. I'm not saying they aren't strong, I'm just wondering what your take on their lineup is.


I was wondering the same thing. Ortiz's health is a HUGE question and without him at full health there's no way this lineup even approaches TB or NY.


Ortiz missed 53 games last year and was clearly not healthy when he played at the end of the year and the sox still finish 3rd in the league in runs scored. I'm not arguing one way or the other but I think your statement of "...without him at full healthy there's no way this lineup even approaches TB or NY." is a little strong...

This is all moot considering the orioles are going to rock that division this year ;-D
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Re: Pat the Ray

Postby AquaMan2342 » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:53 pm

jake_harv88 wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
Just curious GTWMA, could you do the same type of analysis for Boston? Ortiz and Lowell are both aging, they don't have a catcher and it seems questionable that Pedroia can repeat last year's numbers. I'm not saying they aren't strong, I'm just wondering what your take on their lineup is.


I was wondering the same thing. Ortiz's health is a HUGE question and without him at full health there's no way this lineup even approaches TB or NY.


Ortiz missed 53 games last year and was clearly not healthy when he played at the end of the year and the sox still finish 3rd in the league in runs scored. I'm not arguing one way or the other but I think your statement of "...without him at full healthy there's no way this lineup even approaches TB or NY." is a little strong...

This is all moot considering the orioles are going to rock that division this year ;-D


It can't be understated how huge of a hole in the lineup that would be. He did still drive in 89 runs in 109 games after all.

No doubt that all these teams have questions. I just think Boston w/o Ortiz has a much bigger effect than any of the major questions faced by New York or TB.
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Re: Pat the Ray

Postby Yoda » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:54 pm

The Yanks lineup is still better than TB's. Arod and Teixeira are extremely hard guys to get out. I don't see anyone on the Rays that are tough outs.
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Re: Pat the Ray

Postby raiders_umpire » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:24 pm

Yoda wrote:The Yanks lineup is still better than TB's.




It was last year as well.
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Re: Pat the Ray

Postby knapplc » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:44 pm

raiders_umpire wrote:
Yoda wrote:The Yanks lineup is still better than TB's.




It was last year as well.

And that's why the Yanks beat the Ray's like a drum and dominated in the playoffs.

Oh. Wait. !+)
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Re: Pat the Ray

Postby KCollins1304 » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:54 pm

knapplc wrote:
raiders_umpire wrote:
Yoda wrote:The Yanks lineup is still better than TB's.




It was last year as well.

And that's why the Yanks beat the Ray's like a drum and dominated in the playoffs.

Oh. Wait. !+)


The Yankees outscored them 789 to 774, I think that is what rump was referring to.
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Re: Pat the Ray

Postby Yoda » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:54 pm

knapplc wrote:
raiders_umpire wrote:
Yoda wrote:The Yanks lineup is still better than TB's.




It was last year as well.

And that's why the Yanks beat the Ray's like a drum and dominated in the playoffs.

Oh. Wait. !+)


All I said was that the Yanks have a better offense, refuting a delusional Rays fan who thought otherwise. Yanks pitching was terrible last year and suffered a lot of injuries. With the new additions and a healthier roster, they should make the playoffs in 09.
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Re: Pat the Ray

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:54 pm

knapplc wrote:
raiders_umpire wrote:
Yoda wrote:The Yanks lineup is still better than TB's.




It was last year as well.

And that's why the Yanks beat the Ray's like a drum and dominated in the playoffs.

Oh. Wait. !+)


Tampa had the 3rd best ERA in baseball last year. New York was 15th. That was the major reason why Tampa won 97 games and the division last year. That's why the Yankees spent almost $250 million on two top starters this winter. Whether it closes the gap or not remains to be seen.
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