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Who got the better of this deal?

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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby Prospect One » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:55 am

Matusz is pretty much the same pitcher as a guy from SD named Cole Hamels and he has done a pretty decent job pitching with plus secondary off speed pitches. I have to agree that the AL East will always give hell to pitchers but Baltimore is an upcoming team to where Matusz will be a good #2/3 starter. On the trade issue I am not sure if I but Santana as he has produced at one level, the upside is he will be surrounded by many hitters...Sizemore, Mills, and Laporta. ;-D
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby Havok1517 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:13 pm

Right, so right now, at this moment in time, he profiles as a #2 at best until/if he puts 3 to 4 mph on his fastball which then he would meet ace status. But until then, he's a projected #2 at best. Glad we agree.
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby Wheelhouse » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:59 am

Havok1517 wrote:Right, so right now, at this moment in time, he profiles as a #2 at best until/if he puts 3 to 4 mph on his fastball which then he would meet ace status. But until then, he's a projected #2 at best. Glad we agree.


you said BA set his ceiling as that of a #2.......i posted a link that clearly showed they have his ceiling as a #1 ace.....that is, in their opinion, a level he could reach......you were incorrect or perhaps just lying when you cited them as a source

now, your floor in this discussion is to continue to make up crap and cite sources who don't actually back up your position at all while ignoring information that directly contradicts your incorrect opinion..........your ceiling is to admit you were wrong and concede that he does have an ace ceiling, as BA and other sources have stated..........i have a hunch you are going to end up the todd van poppell of posters
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby Havok1517 » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:21 pm

Nah, I believe I read on BA when he was drafted that he was the safest pitcher in the draft and probably projects as a #2. They do have other writers and I looked for the draft breakdown but I couldn't find it anymore. Accordingly, I actually haven't had the time to properly address the topic with sources due to time contraints. Prior to reading this, I do agree with you that if Matusz gains the 3 to 4 mph he would project as an ace but I don't think that happens. Since he's a polished 22 year old college player instead of a raw high school pitcher, I'd say he doesn't have the room to grow. Therefore, I say, as of right now, he's a #2 max until he adds the velocity which I don't think he will. He's no Mark Prior or David Price at the time the of the draft. Here are a bunch of sources stating that he's a #2. I hope sources like Sheehan, TSN, Baltimore Sun, USA Today, Goldstein, and ESPN meet your satisfaction. Enjoy.

http://fantasybaseball.usatoday.com/con ... LB&id=5011
...but he could develop into a No. 2 starter and he should move quickly.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/ind ... grey_jason
He's a very polished pitcher right now, and he looks like he'll eventually be a No. 2 starter in the big leagues.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ ... _more.html
I think he could be a No. 2 guy in a rotation.

http://fantasysource.sportingnews.com/b ... chive.html
...projects as a potential No. 2 starter long term and after starring at the University of San Diego should move quickly.

http://www.mlbfrontoffice.com/2008_06_08_archive.html
...he's an elite pitcher in this draft and projects as a number 2 start in the bigs.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/ ... chatId=464
Kevin Goldstein: Very good starter. No. 2 or 3.

http://camdendepot.blogspot.com/2008/06 ... atusz.html
Matusz start right at Double-A and advance quickly through the minors. He's a very polished pitcher right now, and he looks like he'll eventually be a No. 2 starter in the big leagues.

http://www.baseball-intellect.com/colle ... an-matusz/
I don’t see his upside as a true No. 1, but his breaking stuff is good enough where he could become a good No. 2.

http://withthefirstpick.net/2008-draft- ... an-matusz/
Weaknesses:
Matusz is more of a No. 2 starter in the big leagues as opposed to a true ace.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/artic ... cleid=7570
...they like Matusz and Crow, but don’t see them as potential No. 1 starters, and therefore aren’t leaning on taking either pitcher this high.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ ... rom_z.html
He’s a No. 2 or No. 3 type of starter.


Joe Sheehan at Baseball Prospectus...

"The biggest reason to like the idea of the O's signing Teixeira,though, is that this team is much,much closer to something special than people realize. Nick Markakis is a star. Adam Jones is loosely speaking, Vernon Wells with better defense and less power. Matt Wieters is the best prospect in baseball, and will be the best catcher in the AL by the end of 2010. Brian Matusz is a number 2 starter by 2010. The Orioles have put together a championship caliber core and Teixeira would be another piece in that, giving them 5 players more than capable of being the five best players on a great team. A lineup core of Markakis/Tex/Jones/Wieters won't be one of the best next year but 2010/11? That's a group of players who could combine for a 35 WARP two years out. Add in the 5th pick of in this years draft and it's not hard to get excited about the McPhail era in Baltimore"
Insider article so I can't link.



Baltimore Sun...
O's keeping their options open in draft
With top pick, club looking at potential, not need

By Roch Kubatko | Sun Reporter
June 4, 2008
For the past three years, the Orioles have selected a position player with their first pick in baseball's amateur draft. They also are staunch proponents of the theory that a team never can have enough pitching.

Which direction they'll go tomorrow remains an uncertainty, but this much is evident: The pick will be someone they want, not necessarily someone they need.

"We try to get the player we think is going to have the most productive career," team president Andy MacPhail said. "We certainly don't draft for need. Baseball's different in that regard. It doesn't work that way."

At least, not with the Orioles, who appear to hold the most interest in a high school shortstop and two college players - a left-handed pitcher and a switch-hitting first baseman. So much depends on who is available when they pick fourth, after the Tampa Bay Rays, Pittsburgh Pirates and Kansas City Royals.
The Rays were linked earlier this spring to Tim Beckham, the five-tool shortstop from Griffin (Ga.) High who naturally draws comparisons to B.J. Upton, another former early first-round pick. Upton played the same position for them before moving to center field. But lately they've been a rumored match for Florida State catcher Buster Posey, who would fill a glaring need in their organization.

The Orioles have no interest in Posey after taking catcher Matt Wieters with the fifth overall pick last year. If Posey goes first, it would increase the Orioles' chances of landing Beckham, San Diego left-hander Brian Matusz or South Carolina first baseman Justin Smoak, players who apparently occupy the top slots on their draft board.

"I feel really good about our options," said Joe Jordan, in his fourth season as the Orioles' director of scouting. "We'll absolutely get a player we like a lot. It really depends on what goes on in front of us. It comes down to what other teams do. But I feel real good with where we're at."

Matusz has a fastball that routinely touches 93 mph, but he pitches in reverse, using his off-speed stuff to set it up.

"The three names I'm hearing the most for the Orioles are Beckham, Matusz and Smoak," Baseball America draft expert Jim Callis said. "The assumption is that Posey and Vanderbilt third baseman Pedro Alvarez will definitely be gone ahead of them, and Beckham may not make it to No. 4, either. If he's gone, I think Baltimore will pop Matusz."

Ben Hyman, a Park graduate who evaluates high school and college talent at his Web site, mlbdraftsource.wordpress.com, projects Matusz as a No. 2 starter in the majors, but he also places Missouri right-hander Aaron Crow and Eastern Kentucky left-hander Christian Friedrich ahead of Matusz in the draft.

"Although Matusz has had the better season, he pitches in a pitchers' park that deflates runs at about the same rate as Dodger Stadium," Hyman said. "Crow pitches against better competition in the Big 12, and his stadium is like Coors Field, pre-humidor. Friedrich plays in a mid-major conference but pitches in a hitter-friendly park."

Though the Orioles aren't influenced by need, they could use a first baseman in the system who is close to being ready for the majors. And this draft is stocked at the position.

Smoak draws comparisons to Mount St. Joseph graduate Mark Teixeira, another switch-hitter with power and above-average defensive skills. The University of Miami's Yonder Alonso, Eric Hosmer of American Heritage (Fla.) High, Arizona State's Ike Davis, California's David Cooper and Wake Forest's Allan Dykstra also could go in the opening round. Brett Wallace was a third baseman at Arizona State, but some scouts project him as a first baseman. Callis said he wouldn't be surprised if Alvarez also ends up at first.

"This is the best year ever for first basemen in the draft," Callis said.

Jordan said the bounty and the Orioles' lack of depth at the position don't "factor in a great deal" in his decision-making.

"I'm obviously aware of it. It may have a little influence toward the end, but I really don't think that's how we'll approach it. It's about long term, who we think is the best option and who we think is going to be the best player," he said.

"I've got at least one pitcher I think really fits us, and we've got a couple position-player options. I'm not really there yet. We're still working it out, much in the same sense as Tampa is. We feel like we have options for a couple of players, and I haven't decided yet. We like more than one."
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby Wheelhouse » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:46 am

i'm far from surprised you are unwilling to man up and admit you were wrong......i'm not interested in continuing a discussion with someone who makes up false sources to support their position or is unwilling to admit they made a mistake.....good luck
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby Havok1517 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:27 am

I just gave you 13 legit sources stating that Matusz is a potential #2. Enjoy your lovefest.
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby Prospect One » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:52 pm

Very valid! He did well in college and in the AFL so we will just wait it out but I am one to think he could outperform Arrieta and Tillman. ;-D
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby hybrid » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:31 am

Havok1517 wrote:I just gave you 13 legit sources stating that Matusz is a potential #2. Enjoy your lovefest.


I know we have had are disagreements, but that last post was awesome. ;-D
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby Prospect One » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:57 am

Yeah that was an impressive research engine on outlooks towards Matusz. The best article was the Balt Sun about the future consideration of signing TEX which didn't happen but the reporters views were good. So overall everyone think Matusz is going to be a solid setup man???? :-D
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby Neato Torpedo » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:17 pm

hybrid wrote: while Mills can hit he isn't the 2nd coming of anyone.

Maybe Scott Hatteberg. :*)
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