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Who got the better of this deal?

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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby Havok1517 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:57 pm

Honestly, I'd take Mills and Santana over Matusz alone in fantasy. Positional players are more valuable, especially at catcher, and Matusz doesn't have ace stuff. A possible future compairson could be Victor Martinez and Troy Glaus for Chris Young (trying to find a good No.2). I like the former in the deal.
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby hybrid » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:09 pm

Havok1517 wrote:Honestly, I'd take Mills and Santana over Matusz alone in fantasy. Positional players are more valuable, especially at catcher, and Matusz doesn't have ace stuff. A possible future compairson could be Victor Martinez and Troy Glaus for Chris Young (trying to find a good No.2). I like the former in the deal.


Talk about a comparison that uses their most potential and then some. 8-o
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby Wheelhouse » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:21 am

Havok1517 wrote:Honestly, I'd take Mills and Santana over Matusz alone in fantasy. Positional players are more valuable, especially at catcher, and Matusz doesn't have ace stuff. A possible future compairson could be Victor Martinez and Troy Glaus for Chris Young (trying to find a good No.2). I like the former in the deal.


i strongly disagree with that statement.

FB - sits 88-92, can get it up to 94 and it has good sink......projects to add a bit more velocity
CV - above average to plus
CU - above average to plus
SL - average
Control - plus

4 pitch guy who has plus control and 2 pitches above average or plus to go with a solid FB......if that ain't ace stuff, i don't know what is
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby Havok1517 » Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:14 pm

Wheelhouse wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:Honestly, I'd take Mills and Santana over Matusz alone in fantasy. Positional players are more valuable, especially at catcher, and Matusz doesn't have ace stuff. A possible future compairson could be Victor Martinez and Troy Glaus for Chris Young (trying to find a good No.2). I like the former in the deal.


i strongly disagree with that statement.

FB - sits 88-92, can get it up to 94 and it has good sink......projects to add a bit more velocity
CV - above average to plus
CU - above average to plus
SL - average
Control - plus

4 pitch guy who has plus control and 2 pitches above average or plus to go with a solid FB......if that ain't ace stuff, i don't know what is


Considering that just about every scouting report actually says that Matusz doesn't have ace stuff says you're wrong on this one.
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby thomasps3 » Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:31 pm

Additionally, as a Baltimore Oriole, what would the expected best case scenario turn out to be for Matusz in the AL East? A glorified version of Jeremy Guthrie? No that he is half bad, but rookie pitchers not named Price are going to experience some painful growing pains getting dealt the Red Sox, Rays, and Yankees for 60% of their starts!
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby Wheelhouse » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:16 am

Havok1517 wrote:
Wheelhouse wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:Honestly, I'd take Mills and Santana over Matusz alone in fantasy. Positional players are more valuable, especially at catcher, and Matusz doesn't have ace stuff. A possible future compairson could be Victor Martinez and Troy Glaus for Chris Young (trying to find a good No.2). I like the former in the deal.


i strongly disagree with that statement.

FB - sits 88-92, can get it up to 94 and it has good sink......projects to add a bit more velocity
CV - above average to plus
CU - above average to plus
SL - average
Control - plus

4 pitch guy who has plus control and 2 pitches above average or plus to go with a solid FB......if that ain't ace stuff, i don't know what is


Considering that just about every scouting report actually says that Matusz doesn't have ace stuff says you're wrong on this one.


well as mentioned, if that ain't ace stuff i'd like to know what is........what exactly is he lacking? perhaps your definition of "ace" is different then mine

and i've seen plenty of scouting reports that do indicate he does have ace stuff, specifically from BA and BP
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby Havok1517 » Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:18 pm

Obviously, results make an ace but ace potential centers mainly on the fastball and 92 mph doesn't cut it as that pretty average.
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby Wheelhouse » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:21 am

Havok1517 wrote:Obviously, results make an ace but ace potential centers mainly on the fastball and 92 mph doesn't cut it as that pretty average.


so greg maddux, tom glavine, and bert blyleven were never aces? now i've heard it all

as mentioned, he has potential to add more velocity to his FB.....if he tightens up his mechanics slightly he could easily add 3 or 4 MPH to his FB......he's got 2 other plus pitches beyond that, a 4th pitch, and plus control......that is ace potential, and i'm not seeing anything that refutes that

but obviously you are not interested in a debate and are only looking at a few poor scouting reports, his current FB speed, and parroting that......you have chosen to ignore his other pitches, his mechanics, his arm slot, his release point, his control, his college performance, his mental makeup, or any other attribute that plays into his ultimate upside, so there isn't much point continuing the discussion
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby Havok1517 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:34 am

Wheelhouse wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:Obviously, results make an ace but ace potential centers mainly on the fastball and 92 mph doesn't cut it as that pretty average.


so greg maddux, tom glavine, and bert blyleven were never aces? now i've heard it all

as mentioned, he has potential to add more velocity to his FB.....if he tightens up his mechanics slightly he could easily add 3 or 4 MPH to his FB......he's got 2 other plus pitches beyond that, a 4th pitch, and plus control......that is ace potential, and i'm not seeing anything that refutes that

but obviously you are not interested in a debate and are only looking at a few poor scouting reports, his current FB speed, and parroting that......you have chosen to ignore his other pitches, his mechanics, his arm slot, his release point, his control, his college performance, his mental makeup, or any other attribute that plays into his ultimate upside, so there isn't much point continuing the discussion


Maddux, Glavine, and Byleven are rare exceptions and I mentioned results make an ace. It is you that is ignoring the vast majority of scouting reports saying that Matusz, should be good, but will be a #2 at best. BaseballAmerica must be poor source, my bad.
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Re: Who got the better of this deal?

Postby Wheelhouse » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:55 am

Havok1517 wrote:
Wheelhouse wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:Obviously, results make an ace but ace potential centers mainly on the fastball and 92 mph doesn't cut it as that pretty average.


so greg maddux, tom glavine, and bert blyleven were never aces? now i've heard it all

as mentioned, he has potential to add more velocity to his FB.....if he tightens up his mechanics slightly he could easily add 3 or 4 MPH to his FB......he's got 2 other plus pitches beyond that, a 4th pitch, and plus control......that is ace potential, and i'm not seeing anything that refutes that

but obviously you are not interested in a debate and are only looking at a few poor scouting reports, his current FB speed, and parroting that......you have chosen to ignore his other pitches, his mechanics, his arm slot, his release point, his control, his college performance, his mental makeup, or any other attribute that plays into his ultimate upside, so there isn't much point continuing the discussion


Maddux, Glavine, and Byleven are rare exceptions and I mentioned results make an ace. It is you that is ignoring the vast majority of scouting reports saying that Matusz, should be good, but will be a #2 at best. BaseballAmerica must be poor source, my bad.


http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/dr ... 66273.html

4. Baltimore Orioles
Brian Matusz, lhp, San Diego
B-T: L-L. Ht.: 6-4. Wt.: 200. Age: 21

Scouting Report

Like David Price, the No. 1 pick last year, Matusz is tall and lanky at 6-foot-5 and 200 pounds, and scouts have history with him. He didn't sign with the Angels in 2005 as a fourth-round pick out of an Arizona high school, and he starred for Team USA last summer, after ranking second (behind Price) in the nation in strikeouts. However, Matusz is a much different pitcher than Price. While he has a fastball that sits at 90-93 mph, Matusz doesn't pitch off it, instead using his above-average offspeed stuff to set up his fastball. His curveball is already a plus pitch, and he shows the ability to locate it to either side of the plate. His slider grades out as at least average. Matusz also liberally uses his above-average changeup, one of the finest on the West Coast in years. Mechanically, he's tight and compact, though his arm action is a bit awkward and slightly stiff. He also lands on a straight front leg at times, which some regard as an injury concern and which makes it harder for him to drive his fastball down through the zone. Matusz profiles as a middle of the rotation starter at worst, and if he improves his fastball and mechanics, he can become a staff ace.
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