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Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Metroid » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:47 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
knapplc wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:
I guess I don't. If they can do it better and/or more efficiently than we can, more power to them.

Let's say there's a war. Lichtenstein attacks with all of their might and fury. America needs to rebuild the vehicles killed off in the first dozen waves of mechanized attacks.

Who's going to build those tanks, hummers, APCs, Bradleys, halftracks, LVTs, and two dozen varieties of support vehicles we'll need to repel the Lichtensteinians from our shores? Are we going to hope that Hyundai can ramp up production for us? What if the Lichtensteinian wolfpack sinks our transports on the way across the Pacific?

America needs a manufacturing infrastructure onshore that can be retooled to build such vehicles in times of need.

This is just one simple example off the top of my head. This is pretty basic stuff.


The federal government is going to build what they need. Remember, their only responsibility is courts and armed forces. ;-)

This isn't hard stuff. Who said that we're not going to have a manufacturing infrastructure?

I think what knapp is saying is that in a time of great need we may need to convert our domestic manufacturing infrastructure to manufacture military equipment....it's happened in the past. If we let our manufacturing infrastructure fall away we lose that ability.
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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby knapplc » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:53 pm

Metroid wrote:I think what knapp is saying is that in a time of great need we may need to convert our domestic manufacturing infrastructure to manufacture military equipment....it's happened in the past. If we let our manufacturing infrastructure fall away we lose that ability.

Yep. It's just not so easy to convert a refrigerator plant into an APC plant. That switchover is much easier if you're making vehicles in that plant already.

We don't have the same BASIC infrastructure that we had in WWII, where we really had no facilities to speak of to make tanks and whatnot like we do now. We have dedicated manufacturing to build this stuff at the present, but it's not wise to let that be your ONLY ability to manufacture such things. All your eggs in one basket, so to speak.

This is the same reason why we leave oil sitting in the ground in capped wells in the continental US. We could drop the price at the pump right now if we used the strategic reserve, but that's folly, not wisdom.
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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Big Pimpin » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:14 pm

knapplc wrote:
Metroid wrote:I think what knapp is saying is that in a time of great need we may need to convert our domestic manufacturing infrastructure to manufacture military equipment....it's happened in the past. If we let our manufacturing infrastructure fall away we lose that ability.

Yep. It's just not so easy to convert a refrigerator plant into an APC plant. That switchover is much easier if you're making vehicles in that plant already.

We don't have the same BASIC infrastructure that we had in WWII, where we really had no facilities to speak of to make tanks and whatnot like we do now. We have dedicated manufacturing to build this stuff at the present, but it's not wise to let that be your ONLY ability to manufacture such things. All your eggs in one basket, so to speak.

This is the same reason why we leave oil sitting in the ground in capped wells in the continental US. We could drop the price at the pump right now if we used the strategic reserve, but that's folly, not wisdom.


I don't disagree, and I'm just not sure where I ever said that we would get rid of manufacturing infrastructure or anything of the kind...
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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby knapplc » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:20 pm

Well of course you didn't say that, but we're talking about the dissolution of the big Detroit auto manufacturers, and that's just not wise.

By the way - I'm working on little sleep today, and it's just occurred to me that we've gone from discussing a girl dying in the cold to strategic defense necessities.

The evolution of conversation is an amazing thing. :-D
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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Big Pimpin » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:21 pm

knapplc wrote:Well of course you didn't say that, but we're talking about the dissolution of the big Detroit auto manufacturers, and that's just not wise.

By the way - I'm working on little sleep today, and it's just occurred to me that we've gone from discussing a girl dying in the cold to strategic defense necessities.

The evolution of conversation is an amazing thing. :-D


If you're going to use national defense as an argument as to why not to dissolve the Big 3, I think that's the complete opposite of the argument I would make. Just think, ready-made tank factories, available for pennies on the dollar. :-B Hell, even if the Big 3 shut down and blew up all their assembly facilities, the foreign automakers make almost as many cars here as the Big 3 do and you could just as well commandeer their plants in time of war, could you not? They'd either be completely willing to help and if they're unwilling, then they're obviously the enemy. Problem solved. :-)

I can understand the argument around 3 million lost jobs or whatever the number is (not that I agree), but to argue national defense doesn't make intuitive sense to me at all.

And yes, the evolution of conversation is definitely interesting. :-b
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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Neato Torpedo » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:22 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:I used a few extreme examples simply to point out the fact that the constitution is a flawed and incomplete document. People probably aren't up in arms about it because the vast majority of the populace thinks things like the Department of Education and Social Security--flawed as they are--are good things.


So the vast majority of the populace are sheep, and that's a good thing? I just can't comprehend it.

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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Big Pimpin » Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:47 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:"All the people that disagree with me are sheep."
-Horrible Logicians, circa forever


Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think that at all. For one, I think that plenty of people that do agree with me are sheep. And I also very much respect the opinions of people who disagree with me if they have well thought out reasons. I may think they're wrong, but that's ok.

I just think that most people don't have reasons for thinking things are good or bad other than a talking head or two on TV said they were good or bad. I have very little faith in the general populace.
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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Neato Torpedo » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:15 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:"All the people that disagree with me are sheep."
-Horrible Logicians, circa forever


Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think that at all. For one, I think that plenty of people that do agree with me are sheep. And I also very much respect the opinions of people who disagree with me if they have well thought out reasons. I may think they're wrong, but that's ok.

I just think that most people don't have reasons for thinking things are good or bad other than a talking head or two on TV said they were good or bad. I have very little faith in the general populace.

A cynic, eh? What a downer. :-/
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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby zepfan » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:04 pm

Just an update for those who are still interested. Looks like he's going to jail but it doesn't say how long yet...

JEROME, Idaho – On a bone-chilling Christmas Day, a single father set out to drive his two young children to their mother's home, but the trip came to an abrupt halt when his car got stuck in a snowdrift. Then, prosecutors say, the man did the unthinkable: He sent the pair to walk the remaining 10 miles to their mother's alone, leaving them to trudge through the desolate countryside in frigid temperatures.

Hours later, his 11-year-old daughter was dead from hypothermia. And the man's 12-year-old son narrowly survived after growing delirious from the bitter cold.

Now Robert Aragon, a 55-year-old laborer, is jailed on charges of second-degree murder and felony injury to a child. And many of the 8,000 people who live in this small dairy community are questioning who should be held accountable...


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/death_in_the_snow
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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Metroid » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:21 pm

Aragon's son, Bear, was found in a deserted, single-stall rest stop more than 4 miles from where the children started walking. The boy had become delusional from hypothermia, discarding his jacket, jeans and tennis shoes and stripping to his long underwear.

This is the first I've read the entire story and man that's crazy. Sounds like they found the boy just in time.
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