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Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:29 am

I used a few extreme examples simply to point out the fact that the constitution is a flawed and incomplete document. People probably aren't up in arms about it because the vast majority of the populace thinks things like the Department of Education and Social Security--flawed as they are--are good things.
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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Curtis Pride » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:49 am

AussieDodger wrote:
Curtis Pride wrote:The Constitution was created explicitly stating the functions of the federal government. It was also explicitly stated that unless the role was stated in the document that the role was the state's responsibility; not the federal government's.


It was also created in 1787. If you think the mindset of back then is 100% relevant to making laws in 2009, then best of luck.


Again, completely irrelevant what were the actual laws / racists tenets of the Constitution. I'm referring to the structure of the document and therefore, the country.

The entire basis was that functions of the federal government are spelled out in the Constitution. If they are not spelled out, the federal government does not have the right to do them. If the government wants to expand and take over that function, the only possible way to do that is to amend the constitution.

You, and a host of others, seemingly don't care that for the last 100 years, our leaders have just ignored the Constitution in the name of expediency.
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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Big Pimpin » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:16 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:Maybe we should turn the nation's roads and highway system over to private industry. I mean, it's doing such a bang-up job on the cars we use to drive on them, what could possibly go wrong?


I don't really have anything to add that Curtis hasn't already said, but I will respond to this one. This is almost a perfect example of exactly what I'm talking about. There's nothing wrong with the auto industry. The Big 3 suck, so others have stepped up to provide a better, cheaper, more efficient product. Same thing here. Think of the Department of Education or Department of Transportation as the Big 3, and needing to either go away completely or step up their game because there are real alternatives. Either way I think you get a much better product at a lesser price.

Art Vandelay wrote:I used a few extreme examples simply to point out the fact that the constitution is a flawed and incomplete document. People probably aren't up in arms about it because the vast majority of the populace thinks things like the Department of Education and Social Security--flawed as they are--are good things.


So the vast majority of the populace are sheep, and that's a good thing? I just can't comprehend it.
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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Dan Lambskin » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:27 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:Maybe we should turn the nation's roads and highway system over to private industry. I mean, it's doing such a bang-up job on the cars we use to drive on them, what could possibly go wrong?


I don't really have anything to add that Curtis hasn't already said, but I will respond to this one. This is almost a perfect example of exactly what I'm talking about. There's nothing wrong with the auto industry. The Big 3 suck, so others have stepped up to provide a better, cheaper, more efficient product. Same thing here. Think of the Department of Education or Department of Transportation as the Big 3, and needing to either go away completely or step up their game because there are real alternatives. Either way I think you get a much better product at a lesser price.

Art Vandelay wrote:I used a few extreme examples simply to point out the fact that the constitution is a flawed and incomplete document. People probably aren't up in arms about it because the vast majority of the populace thinks things like the Department of Education and Social Security--flawed as they are--are good things.


So the vast majority of the populace are sheep, and that's a good thing? I just can't comprehend it.


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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:57 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:Maybe we should turn the nation's roads and highway system over to private industry. I mean, it's doing such a bang-up job on the cars we use to drive on them, what could possibly go wrong?


I don't really have anything to add that Curtis hasn't already said, but I will respond to this one. This is almost a perfect example of exactly what I'm talking about. There's nothing wrong with the auto industry. The Big 3 suck, so others have stepped up to provide a better, cheaper, more efficient product. Same thing here. Think of the Department of Education or Department of Transportation as the Big 3, and needing to either go away completely or step up their game because there are real alternatives. Either way I think you get a much better product at a lesser price.

Art Vandelay wrote:I used a few extreme examples simply to point out the fact that the constitution is a flawed and incomplete document. People probably aren't up in arms about it because the vast majority of the populace thinks things like the Department of Education and Social Security--flawed as they are--are good things.


So the vast majority of the populace are sheep, and that's a good thing? I just can't comprehend it.

I don't know...I'm cool with driving a foreign car. But I think there are serious national security concerns with turning our education or transportation systems over to foreign entities. And I guess we have different ideas of what makes someone a 'sheep.' I'd be more likely to call someone who blindly follows a 200+ year-old document a sheep than someone who applies logic to current (and changing) conditions and decides that the 21st century may need different solutions than the 18th.
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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Curtis Pride » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:02 pm

You can't possibly be reading my points to say I'm looking to blindly follow a 200-year old document. No way. Not even close. You are choosing instead to just create this ridiculously laughable and insulting strawman arguments to avoid the topic of discussion altogether.

Moving on.
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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Big Pimpin » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:04 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:I don't know...I'm cool with driving a foreign car. But I think there are serious national security concerns with turning our education or transportation systems over to foreign entities.


I guess I don't. If they can do it better and/or more efficiently than we can, more power to them.

Art Vandelay wrote:I'd be more likely to call someone who blindly follows a 200+ year-old document a sheep than someone who applies logic to current (and changing) conditions and decides that the 21st century may need different solutions than the 18th.


I don't see anyone blindly following a 200+ year old document... That was the whole "amendment" part, remember? If I felt like there was anyone who actually followed logic in determining that we needed a US Dept of Education or Social Security (to use your examples) then I would agree with you. I think in general the populace is too stupid to realize that the wool has been pulled over their eyes by greedy legislators.
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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:06 pm

Curtis Pride wrote:You can't possibly be reading my points to say I'm looking to blindly follow a 200-year old document. No way. Not even close. You are choosing instead to just create this ridiculously laughable and insulting strawman arguments to avoid the topic of discussion altogether.

Moving on.

I wasn't even responding to you, I was responding to BP, who thinks anyone who thinks Social Security and the Dept. of Education are good things are 'sheep.'
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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby knapplc » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:36 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:I don't know...I'm cool with driving a foreign car. But I think there are serious national security concerns with turning our education or transportation systems over to foreign entities.


I guess I don't. If they can do it better and/or more efficiently than we can, more power to them.

Let's say there's a war. Lichtenstein attacks with all of their might and fury. America needs to rebuild the vehicles killed off in the first dozen waves of mechanized attacks.

Who's going to build those tanks, hummers, APCs, Bradleys, halftracks, LVTs, and two dozen varieties of support vehicles we'll need to repel the Lichtensteinians from our shores? Are we going to hope that Hyundai can ramp up production for us? What if the Lichtensteinian wolfpack sinks our transports on the way across the Pacific?

America needs a manufacturing infrastructure onshore that can be retooled to build such vehicles in times of need.

This is just one simple example off the top of my head. This is pretty basic stuff.
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Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Big Pimpin » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:42 pm

knapplc wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:I don't know...I'm cool with driving a foreign car. But I think there are serious national security concerns with turning our education or transportation systems over to foreign entities.


I guess I don't. If they can do it better and/or more efficiently than we can, more power to them.

Let's say there's a war. Lichtenstein attacks with all of their might and fury. America needs to rebuild the vehicles killed off in the first dozen waves of mechanized attacks.

Who's going to build those tanks, hummers, APCs, Bradleys, halftracks, LVTs, and two dozen varieties of support vehicles we'll need to repel the Lichtensteinians from our shores? Are we going to hope that Hyundai can ramp up production for us? What if the Lichtensteinian wolfpack sinks our transports on the way across the Pacific?

America needs a manufacturing infrastructure onshore that can be retooled to build such vehicles in times of need.

This is just one simple example off the top of my head. This is pretty basic stuff.


The federal government is going to build what they need. Remember, their only responsibility is courts and armed forces. ;-)

This isn't hard stuff. Who said that we're not going to have a manufacturing infrastructure?
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