Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to General Talk

Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Big Pimpin » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:32 pm

knapplc wrote:Americans are bound together in numerous ways, for better or worse. The more educated we are as a nation the more productive we'll be, the better our quality of life will be and we'll have a better ability to compete with other nations economically, socially and militarily.


I don't disagree.
Big Pimpin
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 13710
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Building a metric. And being ignorable and stupid.

Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby knapplc » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:45 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
knapplc wrote:Americans are bound together in numerous ways, for better or worse. The more educated we are as a nation the more productive we'll be, the better our quality of life will be and we'll have a better ability to compete with other nations economically, socially and militarily.


I don't disagree.

And I don't disagree with your take that government intrudes too much in the lives of ordinary citizens at times. It's the particular parts of our lives where we'll have to agree to disagree.
Keep wreves in General Talk in 2011!
knapplc
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicGolden Eagle Eye
Posts: 7871
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: It's "ell see." ELL SEE!!!

Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby bigh0rt » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:49 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:I think that everyone should want to be educated, but in the end it's their decision and they should take personal responsibility for that. What's unfortunate about that?

It's unfortunate, in my opinion that you think a) education is not a national concern, and b) the government's only responsibility is protecting us from invasion and individual rights.

Fundamental differences in our thought processes. We could discuss our stances for days, but these are issues that are pretty deeply rooted, in general, so I don't think we'd get very far. I cannot bring myself to fathom the notion that education in this country is not a national concern -- I just can't imagine anything that somebody could say to make me think otherwise.


Fair enough. I certainly think there are great benefits to a highly educated populace, I just don't think it's up to the government to attempt to force it on anyone. One could say that it's considered a national concern now, and we still get thrashed any time we go up against other countries. And that's pretty damning indictment to what we've got going on now. And please don't think that I'm railing on teachers, because honestly I think they're overworked and underpaid and the problem doesn't rest with them.

As for the other, yeah I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Personally I just feel like the government intrudes way too much into the lives of the citizens and should take on a much lesser role (I think the Feds need to step way back, the States should step up some, but the net result would be less government involvement in the lives of US citizens). Individuals should become responsible for themselves for a change.

Definitely didn't take it as railing on teachers, though I do appreciate you clarifying that. ;-D I certainly have my issues with the system as it currently is (in my state at least, there's a large variance state to state -- and mine is one of the best there is, and I still have a laundry list of issues with it), but I think that education is a critical part of our nation, and should be a large concern of the government.
Image
bigh0rt
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 24818
(Past Year: 351)
Joined: 3 Jun 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Crowding The Plate

Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Big Pimpin » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:25 pm

bigh0rt wrote:Definitely didn't take it as railing on teachers, though I do appreciate you clarifying that. ;-D I certainly have my issues with the system as it currently is (in my state at least, there's a large variance state to state -- and mine is one of the best there is, and I still have a laundry list of issues with it), but I think that education is a critical part of our nation, and should be a large concern of the government.


I think the biggest problem I have is a general distrust of the government. I think that most of the time they're part of the problem, and it therefore makes it tough to rely on them to find the solution and rectify the problem. Perhaps it's not that I think education shouldn't be a national concern, simply that I don't think a government-operated system is the answer.
Big Pimpin
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 13710
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Building a metric. And being ignorable and stupid.

Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Curtis Pride » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:30 pm

I can't believe this thread is still going on - and that it has nothing to do with this idiot's dead daughter.

For the record. Roles of the government as put forth by the Constitution: Courts. Army.

That's about it. Everything else (social security, medicare, DEA, Welfare, schools) has been jammed in by lawmakers trying to buy votes.

The initial goal of the country was to have states take on the responsibility of education (among a litany of other things). Thanks to free movement of its citizens competition would be built in. Schools are much better in New York than they are in Arkansas - people move to New York. Arkansas must improve their schools or everyone moves away. However, the federal government stepped in took everything over. Plus they raised everyone's taxes on everything so there can be no tax revenue that states can garnish to build up their schools. Since everyone is already paying 25-40% federal tax, a state trying to get a 10% tax would make people's heads explode.

I guess what I'm saying is that state taxes should be about 2 or 3x the size of federal taxes. The only thing the federal government needs to provide is funding for an army and courts.
Curtis Pride
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1363
(Past Year: 5)
Joined: 19 May 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Big Pimpin » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:32 pm

Curtis Pride wrote:I can't believe this thread is still going on - and that it has nothing to do with this idiot's dead daughter.


We do that a lot around here it seems. :-B


Curtis Pride wrote:For the record. Roles of the government as put forth by the Constitution: Courts. Army.

That's about it. Everything else (social security, medicare, DEA, Welfare, schools) has been jammed in by lawmakers trying to buy votes.

The initial goal of the country was to have states take on the responsibility of education (among a litany of other things). Thanks to free movement of its citizens competition would be built in. Schools are much better in New York than they are in Arkansas - people move to New York. Arkansas must improve their schools or everyone moves away. However, the federal government stepped in took everything over. Plus they raised everyone's taxes on everything so there can be no tax revenue that states can garnish to build up their schools. Since everyone is already paying 25-40% federal tax, a state trying to get a 10% tax would make people's heads explode.

I guess what I'm saying is that state taxes should be about 2 or 3x the size of federal taxes. The only thing the federal government needs to provide is funding for an army and courts.


Great post. ;-D
Big Pimpin
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 13710
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Building a metric. And being ignorable and stupid.

Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Art Vandelay » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:33 pm

Maybe we should turn the nation's roads and highway system over to private industry. I mean, it's doing such a bang-up job on the cars we use to drive on them, what could possibly go wrong?
Everything else (social security, medicare, DEA, Welfare, schools) has been jammed in by lawmakers trying to buy votes.

You forgot to mention all that pesky stuff about counting black people as, you know, people. I mean, who among us really thinks they are worth more than 3/5 of a white person? Also, damn those vote-mongering legislators and activist judges who allowed said black people (and even women!) the right to vote. Clearly that wasn't what the founders intended.
Image
Art Vandelay
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

CafeholicFantasy ExpertPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5265
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby AussieDodger » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:15 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:I think the biggest problem I have is a general distrust of the government. I think that most of the time they're part of the problem, and it therefore makes it tough to rely on them to find the solution and rectify the problem.


Maybe you should come and live down here. Australia's government have had so many helpful schemes going on I've been very impressed. And until this year they've been doing all their helpful stuff AND running with a large surplus. Until they got voted out in '07 this was a right wing govt. doing this (your favourite :-D ). They seem to understand that govt. is there to serve/help you, not rule, which is fantastic. ;-D


Curtis Pride wrote:For the record. Roles of the government as put forth by the Constitution: Courts. Army.

That's about it. Everything else (social security, medicare, DEA, Welfare, schools) has been jammed in by lawmakers trying to buy votes.


Don't you think that is just a little backward thinking? ;-7
Why stop at going back that far? How about the serf/feudal system of the 1300s? They really knew how to make relevant, modern laws back then. ;-7
ATTENTION LONG-TIMERS! NEW FBC: http://fbc2.freeforums.net/
AussieDodger
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterEagle Eye
Posts: 11363
(Past Year: 25)
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: What do you mean, Flash Gordon approaching?

Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby Curtis Pride » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:05 am

Those are some swell strawmen you two have thrown in there in order to completely ignore the point I was making.

The Constitution was created explicitly stating the functions of the federal government. It was also explicitly stated that unless the role was stated in the document that the role was the state's responsibility; not the federal government's.

It also allowed for these swell things called "amendments" which allowed you to expand or alter the scope of the government. Thus, policies like slavery, institutional racism, the sale of alcohol, banning the sale of alcohol, not allowing women to vote, and forcing people 18-21 to go to war and die, but not allowing them to vote could be altered EXPLICITLY in the constitution. And only through amending the document are you able to change or expand the role of the government. If that document is supposedly what the government is founded upon, then we should actually follow its edicts, no?

Feel free to cite a single passage that gives the federal government the role to oversee: education, healthcare, social security, and hell - even the war on drugs. They don't exist. Thus, my comment about "jamming them in". The role of the federal government has expanded in an unconstitutional manner. If the people of this country want to have those things, they should go through the amendment process as is outlined in the constitution. It's pretty simple and I really don't know why 1) our entire government has just ignored the document that they supposedly love so much and 2) why the hell the populace doesn't seem to care.

The comment about Russian serfs is a complete non sequitor. I have no idea what you are talking about or what the Romanov monarchy has to do with the structure of our government. And I have an idea that you don't either.
Curtis Pride
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1363
(Past Year: 5)
Joined: 19 May 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Girl dies on cold walk; dad charged with murder

Postby AussieDodger » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:29 am

Curtis Pride wrote:The Constitution was created explicitly stating the functions of the federal government. It was also explicitly stated that unless the role was stated in the document that the role was the state's responsibility; not the federal government's.


It was also created in 1787. If you think the mindset of back then is 100% relevant to making laws in 2009, then best of luck.



Curtis Pride wrote:The comment about Russian serfs is a complete non sequitor. I have no idea what you are talking about or what the Romanov monarchy has to do with the structure of our government. And I have an idea that you don't either.


I was referring to the English system (the one I can hazily remember from high school that went from William the Conqueror to ?). It was supposed to be an absurd joke as the ;-7 was applied to the end of it.

;-7 = I have made joke, you laugh now (or not :-D )
ATTENTION LONG-TIMERS! NEW FBC: http://fbc2.freeforums.net/
AussieDodger
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterEagle Eye
Posts: 11363
(Past Year: 25)
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: What do you mean, Flash Gordon approaching?

PreviousNext

Return to General Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: assiquate and 2 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Wednesday, Oct. 1
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

San Francisco at Pittsburgh
(8:07 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact