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Re: Matt Wieters

Postby KCollins1304 » Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:27 pm

GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
KCollins1304 wrote:
kab21 wrote:
Um no. He can be a super soph and get 4 arb yrs and almost 3 pre-arb years.


I thought that Super Twos only had 3 arbitration years. So that the team basically controlled them for 5 years and some change. I thought that was the whole deal with not wanting to start players' clocks. In your scenario wouldn't you actually control them for longer than 6 years?


No, I don't think so. You don't become a free agent until you have 6 years of major league service (which is 172 days on the major league roster during the active season). Super Two status usually falls around 128 days of service, so if you hold off on promoting until June, you push the arb years back. Super-Twos get 4 years of arb and 2 years where teams set the salary, where Markakis has had 3 years of team setting the salary, and will get three arb years. Arb results, though, costsyou in $ especially for top players, so it's worthwhile for teams to push that back.


I thought the whole point of Super Twos was to benefit the player. In the short run you might get more money with an extra arbitration year, but you're putting yourself under team control for more than 6 years of service time, something like 6.5 yrs. It just seems counter intuitive to me, I think they should be FA's after they've been controlled for 5.5 years or whatever rather than 6.5 yrs.
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Re: Matt Wieters

Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:18 pm

The Super Twos were a compromise during the last agreement. Players wanted arb after 2 years and owners wanted it after 3.

So, the benefit to the player is that the team calls them up in June and they get 4 arb years.

The alternative is rarely starting the season with the major league team in April. It's typically, get a September call up. From the players' perspective compared to what used to occur for most of them, they get called up 3 months earlier and get the extra arb year.
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Re: Matt Wieters

Postby Wheelhouse » Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:05 am

wieters deserves to start the year with the big club - he is more then ready

he also should have started last year in AA (high A didn't challenge him) and moved up to AAA at mid-season, but the o's wanted to ensure they had a valid excuse to send him to AAA at the start of this season (i.e. he doesn't have experience there yet)

wieters will likely start the year in AAA - i think the o's will choose to ensure he doesn't reach super 2 status

in order to ensure he doesn't become a super 2 he needs to stay in the minors until early june

it's not completely comparable to longoria because the rays were closing in on a long-term deal with him when they called him up, thus making his super 2 status (which he would have qualified for) a non-issue.......wieters, as a boras client, will not sign long-term before reaching free agency
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Re: Matt Wieters

Postby converge241 » Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:51 am

Wieters will not be starting opening day. He will likely come up during the season depending on how he does in AAA. Orioles arent about to risk damaging their best prospect by rushing him as many "top prospects" have flamed out when rushed and failed their first call up. They traded Ramon because its not like he has been that good lately and their 09 success or failure isnt going to be determined by having him around so they got what they could (before he was walking anyway I believe? not sure on that offhand but though I saw he was a FA after this year). Orioles realize they arent contending this year but that doesnt mean you throw the kid to the wolves. Theres so many fill-in options available to be a placeholder and/or mentor him when he does come up. Amazing to have seen him go in 10th and 12th rounds in big mock drafts. Can't imagine why an owner who is taking the process seriously would waste a high pick on him, let alone people who are going to in a real draft. But obviously they must think that highly of him. For every Soto there is a Towles, for an analogy. Many people were very high on both of them last year and some expensive investments were made in each. One paid off and one didnt. I know Wieters' pedigree is higher than either but all 3 were young fantasy catcher players with the hype factor attached.

IMO if you want and believe in him I can only see using a late round flyer on him, even in keeper formats. Let someone else spend the high investment. Even if he were to work out and be a decent fantasy catcher option right away if you are spending a 10th rounder on him thats not much of a return on investment which is a big factor in getting the edge on your opponents in leagues.

As far as the discussion about the O's holding him back in regards to his contract, Angelos wants to get back to winning and if they like what they see out of him in AAA I dont think they will hold him back for contract implications. He will be brought up when ready so he can start to gel with the rest of the team especially the other younger players and pitcher to start their build back towards possible contention in say 2011.

On a side note I have a wager with a huge weiters fan. He bet he would play in 100 MLB games this year. Considering even the best established catchers usually play in that 140 range at the Max, Im liking my odds ;-D And if anyone is curious personally I LOVE him and his potential, big fan much in the same way I was following Lincecum as he was drafted and coming up (Easily my favorite player) but I never spent more than a FA pick on him either in 2007 and through that was fortunate to have him in some leagues including keepers.
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Re: Matt Wieters

Postby bigken117 » Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:46 pm

so far Wieters is just outside the top 10 in the cafe rankings, ranked anywhere from 6 to N/A
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Re: Matt Wieters

Postby Neato Torpedo » Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:04 pm

N/A? N/A?!?!
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Re: Matt Wieters

Postby KCollins1304 » Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:17 pm

bigken117 wrote:so far Wieters is just outside the top 10 in the cafe rankings, ranked anywhere from 6 to N/A


Hmm I should have ranked him, slide him in at 12 for me ole ken.

I think they still had Hernandez when I ranked these before. I wouldn't rank him any higher though until he is given the starting job.
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Re: Matt Wieters

Postby jake_harv88 » Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:41 pm

This thread has literally accomplished nothing. Half the responses have said that he'll start on opening day, while the other half says the O's front office will take it slow. Basically the only way to attack this situation is to temper your expectations and wait until spring training comes so we can get a better idea as to what they are going to do. Anything other than that is just speculation...
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Re: Matt Wieters

Postby Neato Torpedo » Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:43 pm

jake_harv88 wrote:This thread has literally accomplished nothing. Half the responses have said that he'll start on opening day, while the other half says the O's front office will take it slow. Basically the only way to attack this situation is to temper your expectations and wait until spring training comes so we can get a better idea as to what they are going to do. Anything other than that is just speculation...

I disagree. We got KCollins to move Wieters into the rankings.
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Re: Matt Wieters

Postby jake_harv88 » Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:44 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:
jake_harv88 wrote:This thread has literally accomplished nothing. Half the responses have said that he'll start on opening day, while the other half says the O's front office will take it slow. Basically the only way to attack this situation is to temper your expectations and wait until spring training comes so we can get a better idea as to what they are going to do. Anything other than that is just speculation...

I disagree. We got KCollins to move Wieters into the rankings.


touche :-b
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