2009 Cafe Mock Draft Results - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2015 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

2009 Cafe Mock Draft Results

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Re: 2009 Cafe Mock Draft Results

Postby Neato Torpedo » Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:52 pm

Even with his 48 HR last year, Howard's OPS+ was 124, on par with famous sluggers Ibanez and Granderson, and behind other low-AVG sluggers like Cust and Pena. Aren't you guys afraid that you'll pay 1st-round value for the same guy that posted a .215 AVG and 27 HR in the months not named July or September, including a .172 March/April? That's daredevil management in roto, considering that you may have an insurmountable AVG deficit, and death in H2H. Give me 5-cat monsters like Braun and Holliday anyday.
Image

Rocinante2: you know
Rocinante2: its easy to dismiss the orioles as a bad team
ofanrex: go on
Rocinante2: i'm done
Rocinante2: lmao

Play Brushback Baseball! (we need more people)
Neato Torpedo
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerWeb Supporter
Posts: 8618
Joined: 4 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: we don't burn gasoline, we burn our dreams

Re: 2009 Cafe Mock Draft Results

Postby rjforlife » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:03 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:Even with his 48 HR last year, Howard's OPS+ was 124, on par with famous sluggers Ibanez and Granderson, and behind other low-AVG sluggers like Cust and Pena. Aren't you guys afraid that you'll pay 1st-round value for the same guy that posted a .215 AVG and 27 HR in the months not named July or September, including a .172 March/April? That's daredevil management in roto, considering that you may have an insurmountable AVG deficit, and death in H2H. Give me 5-cat monsters like Braun and Holliday anyday.



Braun was .292 92 runs and 14 SB....and Holliday moving to Oakland from Colorado after a 25 HR/88 RBI season is hardly a monster and I would gladly take Howards 48 HR and 146 RBI, regardless of what months he got them in....and March/April doesnt really mean anything because he played 1 game in March. I mean, if you want to randomly group months to support arguments....in months not named April June or August, in 80 games, or roughly half a season, he was 89/300 for .300 avg, hit 31 HR with 89 RBI and scored 70 runs. I would pay first round for that half a year....

I am not trying to be an ass here, the point is that there is really not much of a risk that Howard will implode, he has been very consistent over the last 3 season, average aside, and I believe he was at his basement in that category last season. I don't dislike taking Braun or Holliday there, but I also believe Howard is fully justifiable in that spot.
Goldy is King.
rjforlife
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 7509
(Past Year: 738)
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Vegas Baby

Re: 2009 Cafe Mock Draft Results

Postby Neato Torpedo » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:01 pm

rjforlife wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:Even with his 48 HR last year, Howard's OPS+ was 124, on par with famous sluggers Ibanez and Granderson, and behind other low-AVG sluggers like Cust and Pena. Aren't you guys afraid that you'll pay 1st-round value for the same guy that posted a .215 AVG and 27 HR in the months not named July or September, including a .172 March/April? That's daredevil management in roto, considering that you may have an insurmountable AVG deficit, and death in H2H. Give me 5-cat monsters like Braun and Holliday anyday.



Braun was .292 92 runs and 14 SB....and Holliday moving to Oakland from Colorado after a 25 HR/88 RBI season is hardly a monster and I would gladly take Howards 48 HR and 146 RBI, regardless of what months he got them in....and March/April doesnt really mean anything because he played 1 game in March. I mean, if you want to randomly group months to support arguments....in months not named April June or August, in 80 games, or roughly half a season, he was 89/300 for .300 avg, hit 31 HR with 89 RBI and scored 70 runs. I would pay first round for that half a year....

I am not trying to be an ass here, the point is that there is really not much of a risk that Howard will implode, he has been very consistent over the last 3 season, average aside, and I believe he was at his basement in that category last season. I don't dislike taking Braun or Holliday there, but I also believe Howard is fully justifiable in that spot.

Because Braun and Holliday contribute tons more in SB and AVG, they don't have to focus as much on HR and RBI. When I say 5-cat monster, I don't mean "monster in all 5 cats", I mean "contributor in all 5 cats at a level sufficient for him to be deemed a monster". I mean, you can look at Hanley and say "pfft, Bourn had more steals and Ludwick had more HR, draft them ahead of Hanley". I counted March/April together because that's how baseball-reference groups the months in the splits. And the reason I "randomly grouped" those months is to reinforce my claim that Howard's '08 was MAD streaky. And you want half a year of dominant stats? Draft Bradley, Chipper, Harden, and Sheets.
Last edited by Neato Torpedo on Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

Rocinante2: you know
Rocinante2: its easy to dismiss the orioles as a bad team
ofanrex: go on
Rocinante2: i'm done
Rocinante2: lmao

Play Brushback Baseball! (we need more people)
Neato Torpedo
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerWeb Supporter
Posts: 8618
Joined: 4 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: we don't burn gasoline, we burn our dreams

Re: 2009 Cafe Mock Draft Results

Postby tribefan08 » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:02 pm

Holliday was on the DL for 15 days too. Plus when he came back it took him another week to adjust. Stats were hampered. I think its presonal preference. Howard will give you monster HR/RBI numbers, but Braun and Holliday will give you production in all categories without Crushing your batting average, which Howard does. Now if Howard hits .280 even somehow, WOW.... we're not even gonna talk about how sick that would be....


.300 would be off the charts
tribefan08
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1197
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: 2009 Cafe Mock Draft Results

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:46 pm

tribefan08 wrote:Holliday was on the DL for 15 days too. Plus when he came back it took him another week to adjust. Stats were hampered. I think its presonal preference. Howard will give you monster HR/RBI numbers, but Braun and Holliday will give you production in all categories without Crushing your batting average, which Howard does. Now if Howard hits .280 even somehow, WOW.... we're not even gonna talk about how sick that would be....


.300 would be off the charts


I'm surprised that you're actually using the fact that he was injured to support your argument. If he was hurt then, whose to say that he won't get hurt again this year? I don't want my 1st round pick missing time.
Image

2011 Live Free or DyNasty Champ
A Fleshner Fantasy
Wicked Wikitect
Wicked Wikitect

User avatar
CafeholicMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 3542
(Past Year: 31)
Joined: 11 May 2006
Home Cafe: Football

Re: 2009 Cafe Mock Draft Results

Postby Neato Torpedo » Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:02 pm

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
tribefan08 wrote:Holliday was on the DL for 15 days too. Plus when he came back it took him another week to adjust. Stats were hampered. I think its presonal preference. Howard will give you monster HR/RBI numbers, but Braun and Holliday will give you production in all categories without Crushing your batting average, which Howard does. Now if Howard hits .280 even somehow, WOW.... we're not even gonna talk about how sick that would be....


.300 would be off the charts


I'm surprised that you're actually using the fact that he was injured to support your argument. If he was hurt then, whose to say that he won't get hurt again this year? I don't want my 1st round pick missing time.

Holliday's injury was a strained hammy and he played 139 games. Howard had a strained quad in '07 and played 144 games. Huge deal.

And saying "if Howard gets back to '06 form" is like saying "if Holliday goes back to '07 power while keeping his '08 speed". You'd be looking at a player who puts up a line of 110 R, 36 HR, 115 RBI, 28 SB, and a .330 AVG, which are likely #1 overall numbers. Will anyone take him at #1 overall? Nope.
Image

Rocinante2: you know
Rocinante2: its easy to dismiss the orioles as a bad team
ofanrex: go on
Rocinante2: i'm done
Rocinante2: lmao

Play Brushback Baseball! (we need more people)
Neato Torpedo
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerWeb Supporter
Posts: 8618
Joined: 4 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: we don't burn gasoline, we burn our dreams

Re: 2009 Cafe Mock Draft Results

Postby Snakes Gould » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:02 am

this argument is petty and stupid.

howard is no injury risk, as holliday isnt either. you simply choose your preference of a lower average and more hr and rbi or higher avg, higher sbs, and lower hr and rbi numbers. simple as that.
Image

SIGS!

Shane Victorino wrote:“We keep fighting,” Victorino said. “We keep plugging along.”
Snakes Gould
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterGolden Eagle EyeWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 16051
Joined: 1 Nov 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Eternal Bliss

Re: 2009 Cafe Mock Draft Results

Postby rjforlife » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:40 pm

Snakes Gould wrote:this argument is petty and stupid.

howard is no injury risk, as holliday isnt either. you simply choose your preference of a lower average and more hr and rbi or higher avg, higher sbs, and lower hr and rbi numbers. simple as that.


I fully agree....I am only trying to defend Howard as a viable pick, not discredit Braun/Holliday/Sizemore. The 7 pick is wide open and any of those 4 are fine with me. But to not include Howard in that group of viable options, in my opinion, is wrong.

Also, I don't know why its so ridiculous that Howard would hit .280 for the year. He hit .276 in the 2nd half last season, .280 in the second half in '07, and .313 for the season in 06. I don't think its LIKELY he will hit .280 or better, but it is certainly possible and not as outlandish as everyone seems to want to make it.
Goldy is King.
rjforlife
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 7509
(Past Year: 738)
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Vegas Baby

Re: 2009 Cafe Mock Draft Results

Postby Yoda » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:06 pm

The main thing I would worry about with Howard is that he will not age well. His drop could be very quick and significant. Another thing I would worry about is injuries for his body type. I don't think this will happen but there is much more risk with him than the other guys going in the 1st round.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
Yoda
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 21344
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 15th green...

Re: 2009 Cafe Mock Draft Results

Postby Jose_Reyes_1_1 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:28 pm

I think that Dustin Pedroia should be in front on Ian Kinsler. That's just my opinion, but maybe Dustin had a lucky season. Who knows..
Jose_Reyes_1_1
Little League Legend
Little League Legend


Posts: 10
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Home Cafe: Baseball

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 6 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact