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Red Sox step over dollars to pick up a Penny

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Re: Red Sox step over dollars to pick up a Penny

Postby GiantsFan14 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:36 am

Neato Torpedo wrote:
jlm53089 wrote:
bigken117 wrote:I would rather have seen Boston put a two year gamble on Sheets. :-/ One year deals never fail in the long run though, so I'm not too broken up or excited about this either way. Penny can be a good pitcher when he's on, which is more than Colon had going for him.


Yea a CY Young Award is just worthless these days...

Johan '05: 2.87 ERA, 0.97 WHIP, 238 K
Buehrle '05: 3.12 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 146 K
Colon '05: 3.48 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 157 K

Please never bring up Colon's Cy Young award to support an argument in favor of him. :-/ Two players easily put up better numbers than he did, and I'd even make an argument to rank Rivera and his 1.38/0.87/80/43 (2 BSV) line above Colon.

Plus that award was 3 years old by the time Colon signed with Boston, and he himself was 35.


nice job cherry-picking stats... let me provide the numbers that really matter...
Johan '05: 16 Wins
Buehrle '05: 16 Wins
Colon '05: 21 Wins

Good luck getting out of that one.
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Re: Red Sox step over dollars to pick up a Penny

Postby jcook3127 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:07 am

GiantsFan14 wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:
jlm53089 wrote:
Yea a CY Young Award is just worthless these days...

Johan '05: 2.87 ERA, 0.97 WHIP, 238 K
Buehrle '05: 3.12 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 146 K
Colon '05: 3.48 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 157 K

Please never bring up Colon's Cy Young award to support an argument in favor of him. :-/ Two players easily put up better numbers than he did, and I'd even make an argument to rank Rivera and his 1.38/0.87/80/43 (2 BSV) line above Colon.

Plus that award was 3 years old by the time Colon signed with Boston, and he himself was 35.


nice job cherry-picking stats... let me provide the numbers that really matter...
Johan '05: 16 Wins
Buehrle '05: 16 Wins
Colon '05: 21 Wins

Good luck getting out of that one.


What are you kidding? There's no need to "get out" of anything....what has been in question is Bartolo's TALENT....

Wins do not measure talent nearly as good as ERA, WHIP, and Strike Outs....that is undeniable in any conversation involving logic...it's not cherry picking at all...Colon's Cy Young was brought up to defend the guys TALENT..and then the three most mainstream pitching stats that display talent were thrown back in his face and it's clear Bartolo was not the best pitcher in 2005...

Unless you were joking, in which case I apologize...but, your tone screamed more "utterly ridiculous" than "sarcastic"

I really don't see the hang up here....

As for Penny....doesn't lift my dress up...the Teixeira signing has left me lifeless. Sheets or nothing.
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Re: Red Sox step over dollars to pick up a Penny

Postby mweir145 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:11 am

He was joking, I think.
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Re: Red Sox step over dollars to pick up a Penny

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:35 am

Neato Torpedo wrote:
jlm53089 wrote:
bigken117 wrote:I would rather have seen Boston put a two year gamble on Sheets. :-/ One year deals never fail in the long run though, so I'm not too broken up or excited about this either way. Penny can be a good pitcher when he's on, which is more than Colon had going for him.


Yea a CY Young Award is just worthless these days...

Johan '05: 2.87 ERA, 0.97 WHIP, 238 K
Buehrle '05: 3.12 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 146 K
Colon '05: 3.48 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 157 K

Please never bring up Colon's Cy Young award to support an argument in favor of him. :-/ Two players easily put up better numbers than he did, and I'd even make an argument to rank Rivera and his 1.38/0.87/80/43 (2 BSV) line above Colon.

Plus that award was 3 years old by the time Colon signed with Boston, and he himself was 35.


Regardless of whether or not he should have won the Cy Young that year, he still was a good pitcher. Those stats are still good, so I wouldn't use the argument that Penny is a better pickup when he's on.
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Re: Red Sox step over dollars to pick up a Penny

Postby J35J » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:47 am

Penny stock just fell further than I already had it....I'd be suprised if he doesn't get shelled in the AL East. I wouldn't be suprised if he started off the first month or even two at a decent clip but he'll get rocked when all is said and done I'd imagine.
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Re: Red Sox step over dollars to pick up a Penny

Postby thedude » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:56 am

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:Regardless of whether or not he should have won the Cy Young that year, he still was a good pitcher. Those stats are still good, so I wouldn't use the argument that Penny is a better pickup when he's on.


Maybe, but that was the last time Colon was on.

The last time Penny was "on."

2007: 16-4, 208ip, 3.03 era, 151 era+
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Re: Red Sox step over dollars to pick up a Penny

Postby RocketsDWM » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:58 pm

I don't this necessarily eliminates Smoltz or Sheets out of the fold. Penny could be used in the 'pen to conserve his arm. Along the lines of what bigken said, I too would like to see a pursuit of Sheets for a 2-3 yr deal.
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Re: Red Sox step over dollars to pick up a Penny

Postby bigken117 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:22 pm

thedude wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:Regardless of whether or not he should have won the Cy Young that year, he still was a good pitcher. Those stats are still good, so I wouldn't use the argument that Penny is a better pickup when he's on.


Maybe, but that was the last time Colon was on.

The last time Penny was "on."

2007: 16-4, 208ip, 3.03 era, 151 era+


Also Penny will be 31 heading into the season, Colon was 35 last year.

Just because a player put up good stats 3 years ago doesn't mean he has anything going for him now. Richie Sexson hit 34 HR in 2006. Does not mean he has anything going for him now.

Have to wait and hear on his shoulder before you can begin to gauge his value.
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Re: Red Sox step over dollars to pick up a Penny

Postby GiantsFan14 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:09 pm

mweir145 wrote:He was joking, I think.


i'm somewhat offended you weren't sure enough about whether i was joking to add "i think" at the end. :-[
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Re: Red Sox step over dollars to pick up a Penny

Postby The Artful Dodger » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:18 pm

bigken117 wrote:
thedude wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:Regardless of whether or not he should have won the Cy Young that year, he still was a good pitcher. Those stats are still good, so I wouldn't use the argument that Penny is a better pickup when he's on.


Maybe, but that was the last time Colon was on.

The last time Penny was "on."

2007: 16-4, 208ip, 3.03 era, 151 era+


Also Penny will be 31 heading into the season, Colon was 35 last year.

Just because a player put up good stats 3 years ago doesn't mean he has anything going for him now. Richie Sexson hit 34 HR in 2006. Does not mean he has anything going for him now.

Have to wait and hear on his shoulder before you can begin to gauge his value.


Either way, I don't see Penny being such a pretty bargain. He wastes a good deal of pitches on a flat fastball that tends to get a good share of foul balls and Penny's HR/FB rate finally caught up to him last year when in the year prior, it was unusually low.
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