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Manny Ramirez Rumors

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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby RedSoxNation04 » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:17 pm

Yoda wrote:I heard the Cubs were interested in Manny

Finally, something newsworthy.... :*)
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby noseeum » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:18 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:
noseeum wrote:They have done that. It's Soriano. The Yankees only have one free agent superstar as well and that's CC. You're cherry picking.

You may argue that the Cubs have done a much better job at finding under appreciated free agents and getting bargains a la Lilly and Dempster, but so what? Good for the Cubs, bad for the Yankees in choosing Pavano and Wright in 2004 instead of Dempster. That doesn't change they both used the same strategy to improve. It worked for the Cubs and bombed for the Yankees.

You have a hypothesis in your head: "Yankees get all the high priced FAs and no one else does. Yankees never build talent from within. Cubs trade for talent and never get any high priced FAs."

One tests a hypothesis with facts. And tests reveal yours fails.

Root for the Royals if you want to complain about the Yankees, not the Cubs.

Jesus crap man, you're putting words in my mouth. All three sentences of your vision of my hypothesis is wrong. I never said they get "all the high priced FAs", I just said that they frequently go after them. I never said the Yankees "never build talent from within". I recognize Joba, Cano, and to a lesser extent Wang as quality players built from within this decade. I did say that the Cubs primarily trade for talent but I never said they didn't get high-priced FAs. Lilly and Marquis were high priced but to call them stars or marquee names is a massive stretch. Didn't I make the distinction between "high-priced" and "star" yet? Were Lilly, Marquis, and Derosa anywhere near the top of the FA list the year they were signed?

I never mentioned Pavano and Wright because they're not stars. And I corrected myself a little later from superstars to star-level players. Alright, I'll scratch CC because of Soriano. Where's the Cubs' equivalent of Burnett, Damon, and Matsui? Lilly, Derosa, and Fukudome? Yeah right. I'm the Cubs fan here, I should be the one unreasonably elevating my players' status, not you guys. :-S


Burnett, zero time all star
Dempster, two time all star
Ted Lilly, one time all star

Who's the star here?

So if both the Yankees and Cubs acquire via free agency, build from within, trade to get talent, and acquire STAR free agents, what, praytell, is your point again?

Did you ever think perhaps the Cubs don't bother sometimes because they are in the NL and it's easier to compete? There's no sense wasting money if no one else in your division is putting the pressure on in terms of free agents.
Last edited by noseeum on Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Yoda » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:23 pm

Torpedo is still confused.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Neato Torpedo » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:33 pm

noseeum wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:And if we're going to count Dempster's recent re-signing as a FA signing, then we have to count A-Rod's...


January 21, 2004: Signed as a Free Agent with the Chicago Cubs.

How do you figure? Do I know more about your team than you do? LOL.

Because Dempster was a marquee signing in 2004 and in no way coming off TJ surgery, 3 straight years of 4.94+ ERA, and a year with 6.54 ERA and 1.76 WHIP. ;-7 Yeah, he was most definitely a top 3 FA pitcher that year, arguably a star.
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Neato Torpedo » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:47 pm

noseeum wrote:Burnett, zero time all star
Dempster, two time all star
Ted Lilly, one time all star

Who's the star here?

So if both the Yankees and Cubs acquire via free agency, build from within, trade to get talent, and acquire STAR free agents, what, praytell, is your point again?

Did you ever think perhaps the Braves don't bother sometimes because they are in the NL and it's easier to compete? There's no sense wasting money if no one else in your division is putting the pressure on in terms of free agents.

Are you unironically using ASG appearances as a measure of how good a player is? 8-o I mean, let's not count Dempster's (about) 5.50/1.60 ERA/WHIP in the 3 years before his signing with the Cubs, or the fact that he was signed for 300k originally, or that he was coming off TJ surgery. Complete non-factors. Or that Lilly never had a single full season with an ERA under 4.06 or a 1.32 WHIP, and 4.70/1.47 in the two years between his ASG appearance and his Cubs signing. And as for Burnett, it doesn't matter at all that two of the three full seasons he pitched in his career were 3.44 and 3.30 ERA, respectively. Of the 5 years Lilly made 19+ starts, he had one year under 4.31 ERA, while Burnett's was 4.07 or lower every year when he made 19+ starts, often well below.
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Yoda » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:17 pm

Torpedo is now in denial.
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby noseeum » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:36 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:
noseeum wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:And if we're going to count Dempster's recent re-signing as a FA signing, then we have to count A-Rod's...


January 21, 2004: Signed as a Free Agent with the Chicago Cubs.

How do you figure? Do I know more about your team than you do? LOL.

Because Dempster was a marquee signing in 2004 and in no way coming off TJ surgery, 3 straight years of 4.94+ ERA, and a year with 6.54 ERA and 1.76 WHIP. ;-7 Yeah, he was most definitely a top 3 FA pitcher that year, arguably a star.


I was simply pointing out that I wasn't counting Dempster's recent signing as a FA signing. I was counting his signing in '04 when the Cubs acquired him as an FA. So trading for Arod does not equate to signing Dempster as an FA. Who cares how bad/hurt he was? He was an FA. Perhaps you'd like to add yet another layer to your criteria: injured FAs/FA that aren't stars/FAs that are stars. Well, no matter how you slice it both that Yankees and Cubs have some of each.

By now I have to assume that you're joking because you lost the plot about 10 posts ago. Go Cubs!
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Neato Torpedo » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:38 pm

I've been saying FA stars/superstars from the beginning!
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby tah161 » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:39 am

I dont think Manny is going to sign with the Yankee's unless they offer him a considerable amount of money (like the did C.C.)

When he left Boston he said it was a huge weight lifted off his shoulder. All the pressure was gone and he could just go play baseball and LA was a more laid back town.

If he thought Boston was bad, I can imagine NY is just the same if not 10 times worse.

Like I said, You dont what he is going to do but if his words are an indication they I dont think he will sign with them. Unless of course the money is right.
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby RedSoxNation04 » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:08 am

tah161 wrote:I dont think Manny is going to sign with the Yankee's unless they offer him a considerable amount of money (like the did C.C.)

When he left Boston he said it was a huge weight lifted off his shoulder. All the pressure was gone and he could just go play baseball and LA was a more laid back town.

If he thought Boston was bad, I can imagine NY is just the same if not 10 times worse.

Like I said, You dont what he is going to do but if his words are an indication they I dont think he will sign with them. Unless of course the money is right.

Uh, this has nothing to do with Neato's and Noseeum's argument...wrong thread, my friend... :*) }:-)
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