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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby noseeum » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:37 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:Yoda: You're reaching. The draw isn't "we'll pay you more money than anyone else", they actually give talent in return. It may not be completely different, but it's at least very different. I'm talking about gutting the FA market with the strength of money instead of well-drafted talent. It takes scouting/drafting proficiency and at least decent player development to give a team's prospects trade value, but all you need to supply the Yankees' strategy is a crapload of money and access to ESPN to see who are the marquee FAs of the year.


Um, Neato, perhaps you missed my summary:
Yankees:
Total home grown (won't count Hughes here because he's number 6): 8
Total trade: 3
Total free agent: 4


Cubs:
Total home grown: 5
Total trade: 3
Total free agent: 6


Notice trade number is same, the Cubs have more FAs and the Yankees have more home grown.
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Yoda » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:43 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:Yoda: You're reaching. The draw isn't "we'll pay you more money than anyone else", they actually give talent in return. It may not be completely different, but it's at least very different. I'm talking about gutting the FA market with the strength of money instead of well-drafted talent. It takes scouting/drafting proficiency and at least decent player development to give a team's prospects trade value, but all you need to supply the Yankees' strategy is a crapload of money and access to ESPN to see who are the marquee FAs of the year.


How exactly am I reaching? The Cubs do the same exact thing with a lesser payroll than the Yanks but they are top 5 every year in payroll. Oh and the difference is that the Cubs haven't wont in 100+ years so I can understand your bitterness.

You conveniently ignored Noseeum's post there buddy.
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Neato Torpedo » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:46 pm

noseeum wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Also...the Cubs are just as guilty of buying players as the Yankees. You really have nothing to complain about.

Please read my previous post and name some high priced superstar FA the Cubs bought besides Soriano and Fukudome, which are the only two in a long-ass time. Who will you come up with? Alou? Glendon Rusch? Like I said, they got their nucleus by gutting their minor league system in exchange for MLB players, which is completely different.


Yankees traded for Arod. Traded for Abreu. Traded for Nady. Their nucleus since '96 was homegrown, and they haven't won anything since grabbing Giambi, Damon, Matsui. Cano and Melky are home grown. Joba, Pettitte, Mo are home grown. How many home grown Cubs are there?

Yankees roster:
C homegrown
1B trade
2B home
SS home
3B trade
LF (Damon/Matsui) free agent
CD home
RF (nady) trade
DH (not sure who yet, but let's just toss FA in here for your sake) free agent

SPs:
CC free agent
Burnett free agent
Wang home grown
Joba home grown
Pettitte home grown
Hughes home grown

Closer: Mo home grown

Total home grown (won't count Hughes here because he's number 6): 8
Total trade: 3
Total free agent: 4

Cubs:
C home grown
1B trade
2B free agent
SS home grown
3B trade
LF free agent
CF (who knows but we'll stick with home grown) home grown
RF free agent

SPs:
Harden trade
Lilly free agent
Zambrano home grown
Dempster free agent
Marquis free agent

Closer: Marmol home grown

Total home grown: 5
Total trade: 3
Total free agent: 6

Sure seems like the Cubs love free agency to me.

Alright, but I'm not sure how Lilly, Dempster, and Derosa were ever even close marquee free agents. I understand if you'd consider Marquis one, though. :-b Dempster was signed at the bottom of his career, not the top. Marquis was signed coming off a career worst season and his only purpose was a back-end starter. Lilly was coming off a solid but wholly unspectacular year in Toronto, and was at best a middle-of-the-road FA. Derosa was signed as a utility player, another middle-of-the-road FA who worked wonders in Chicago.

I already conceded Soriano and Fukudome, but the Yankees have CC (superstar), Burnett, (star), Damon (star), and Matsui (star). And I'm counting Damon and Matsui as two people, not sure why you refuse to. And they're going after Manny and Teixeira, both superstars, to fill in 1B or DH.
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Neato Torpedo » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:48 pm

I wasn't ignoring Nose's post, I was just responding to them in order. I happen to be watching Batman and fixing my damn phone all while posting here so I apologize for the slight delay in replies.
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Yoda » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:49 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:I wasn't ignoring Nose's post, I was just responding to them in order. I happen to be watching Batman and fixing my damn phone all while posting here so I apologize for the slight delay in replies.


Yes and this explains why you are so confused. :-D
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Neato Torpedo » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:49 pm

Yoda wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:Yoda: You're reaching. The draw isn't "we'll pay you more money than anyone else", they actually give talent in return. It may not be completely different, but it's at least very different. I'm talking about gutting the FA market with the strength of money instead of well-drafted talent. It takes scouting/drafting proficiency and at least decent player development to give a team's prospects trade value, but all you need to supply the Yankees' strategy is a crapload of money and access to ESPN to see who are the marquee FAs of the year.


How exactly am I reaching? The Cubs do the same exact thing with a lesser payroll than the Yanks but they are top 5 every year in payroll. Oh and the difference is that the Cubs haven't wont in 100+ years so I can understand your bitterness.

You conveniently ignored Noseeum's post there buddy.

You conveniently ignored the post you responded to. :-/
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Neato Torpedo » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:52 pm

Yoda wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:I wasn't ignoring Nose's post, I was just responding to them in order. I happen to be watching Batman and fixing my damn phone all while posting here so I apologize for the slight delay in replies.


Yes and this explains why you are so confused. :-D

Then what three other things are you doing to justify you being even more confused? B-)
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Yoda » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:53 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:I wasn't ignoring Nose's post, I was just responding to them in order. I happen to be watching Batman and fixing my damn phone all while posting here so I apologize for the slight delay in replies.


Yes and this explains why you are so confused. :-D

Then what three other things are you doing to justify you being even more confused? B-)


I'm clearly not the one who is confused since you are the only person who adamantly believes that the Cubs are run far differently than every other large market team.
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Art Vandelay » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:56 pm

I hesitate to even enter this conversation because, well, I really don't care and find the whole thing kind of silly, but how are you not counting Andy Pettitte as a free agent? That's like saying if the Indians sign Ramirez tomorrow, that's not free agency, that's developing home-grown talent.
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Yoda » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:59 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:I hesitate to even enter this conversation because, well, I really don't care and find the whole thing kind of silly, but how are you not counting Andy Pettitte as a free agent? That's like saying if the Indians sign Ramirez tomorrow, that's not free agency, that's developing home-grown talent.


Pettitte is a free agent.
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