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Manny Ramirez Rumors

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Re: RUMOR: Manny Ramirez to Yankees

Postby mweir145 » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:02 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:i was surprised too, to see a Jays fan want Manny to go to the Yankees. i understand the Sox hate but why not the same hate for the Yankees.
im also a Jays fan, but i hate the Yankees. they have the ability to throw money at anyone they want, and alot of times its not even that smart.. like this whole Manny thing. Manny could be a huge offensive weapon, but he also creates other problems.
i dont necessarily hate the Sox, but i certainly dont like them. i do however think their organization is run better than the Yankees.
as a Jays fan i was hoping to see Manny go somewhere other than the AL East. the Jays dont really have much of a chance at contending anytime soon, especially 2009.

I really enjoy watching Yankees-Red Sox games as it is, they are generally the two best teams in the league. A signing like this would even make it even better.
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Re: RUMOR: Manny Ramirez to Yankees

Postby mweir145 » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:06 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
SpecialFNK wrote:i was surprised too, to see a Jays fan want Manny to go to the Yankees. i understand the Sox hate but why not the same hate for the Yankees.
im also a Jays fan, but i hate the Yankees. they have the ability to throw money at anyone they want, and alot of times its not even that smart.. like this whole Manny thing. Manny could be a huge offensive weapon, but he also creates other problems.
i dont necessarily hate the Sox, but i certainly dont like them. i do however think their organization is run better than the Yankees.
as a Jays fan i was hoping to see Manny go somewhere other than the AL East. the Jays dont really have much of a chance at contending anytime soon, especially 2009.

It's a recent thing. This disdain for the Red Sox was all directed at the Yankees when they were winning. At the time, they said it was the arrogance and annoyance of Yankee fans, which existed -- and at the time Sox fans were right there in agreement, until their city started tasting victory again, and they became the very thing they hated half a decade ago. It's been quite interesting to witness the transformation. All this disdain for Boston, though, is a relatively recent thing. It came fast and furiously with the success of the Sox, Pats, and "C's", as they're now seemingly called.

Yeah, I'd prefer to go back to the late 90s when all those teams were mediocre. Even the Bruins are now dominating in the NHL...it's just awful.
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby mweir145 » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:08 pm

Also...the Cubs are just as guilty of buying players as the Yankees. You really have nothing to complain about.
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Re: RUMOR: Manny Ramirez to Yankees

Postby Yoda » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:33 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:Well, Ramirez and Lee had their best years in Chicago and came over in trades, so while not exactly homegrown, they're not Yankee-style superstar FA signings. Really, the only thing close to a superstar FA signing in the last decade besides Soriano is Fukudome. After that, you have Moises Alou and not much else.

There's the Yankee-types who build their teams from FAs, there's TB-types who build their teams from within, and there's Cubs-types who trade away all their prospects to get MLB-ready players. Look at this year, even. They traded Ceda for Gregg, traded Gallagher/Donaldson/Murton/E. Patterson for Harden/Gaudin, and were about ready to trade Vitters+ for Peavy.


The Yanks were much better when they didn't spend money on top FA's and built from their nucleus of homegrown players. What were your complaints then?
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Neato Torpedo » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:46 pm

I didn't have complaints then because they weren't being jerks. I still didn't like them, but at least I recognized them as a legitimately good organization.
Last edited by Neato Torpedo on Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Neato Torpedo » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:49 pm

mweir145 wrote:Also...the Cubs are just as guilty of buying players as the Yankees. You really have nothing to complain about.

Please read my previous post and name some high priced superstar FA the Cubs bought besides Soriano and Fukudome, which are the only two in a long-ass time. Who will you come up with? Alou? Glendon Rusch? Like I said, they got their nucleus by gutting their minor league system in exchange for MLB players, which is completely different.
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Yoda » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:56 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Also...the Cubs are just as guilty of buying players as the Yankees. You really have nothing to complain about.

Please read my previous post and name some high priced superstar FA the Cubs bought besides Soriano and Fukudome, which are the only two in a long-ass time. Who will you come up with? Alou? Glendon Rusch? Like I said, they got their nucleus by gutting their minor league system in exchange for MLB players, which is completely different.


It's not completely different. You are still taking on larger and unwanted salaries while giving up players with less service time (cheaper).
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby noseeum » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:24 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Also...the Cubs are just as guilty of buying players as the Yankees. You really have nothing to complain about.

Please read my previous post and name some high priced superstar FA the Cubs bought besides Soriano and Fukudome, which are the only two in a long-ass time. Who will you come up with? Alou? Glendon Rusch? Like I said, they got their nucleus by gutting their minor league system in exchange for MLB players, which is completely different.


Yankees traded for Arod. Traded for Abreu. Traded for Nady. Their nucleus since '96 was homegrown, and they haven't won anything since grabbing Giambi, Damon, Matsui. Cano and Melky are home grown. Joba, Pettitte, Mo are home grown. How many home grown Cubs are there?

Yankees roster:
C homegrown
1B trade
2B home
SS home
3B trade
LF (Damon/Matsui) free agent
CD home
RF (nady) trade
DH (not sure who yet, but let's just toss FA in here for your sake) free agent

SPs:
CC free agent
Burnett free agent
Wang home grown
Joba home grown
Pettitte home grown
Hughes home grown

Closer: Mo home grown

Total home grown (won't count Hughes here because he's number 6): 8
Total trade: 3
Total free agent: 4

Cubs:
C home grown
1B trade
2B free agent
SS home grown
3B trade
LF free agent
CF (who knows but we'll stick with home grown) home grown
RF free agent

SPs:
Harden trade
Lilly free agent
Zambrano home grown
Dempster free agent
Marquis free agent

Closer: Marmol home grown

Total home grown: 5
Total trade: 3
Total free agent: 6

Sure seems like the Cubs love free agency to me.
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby Neato Torpedo » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:32 pm

Yoda: You're reaching. The draw isn't "we'll pay you more money than anyone else", they actually give talent in return. It may not be completely different, but it's at least very different. I'm talking about gutting the FA market with the strength of money instead of well-drafted talent. It takes scouting/drafting proficiency and at least decent player development to give a team's prospects trade value, but all you need to supply the Yankees' strategy is a crapload of money and access to ESPN to see who are the marquee FAs of the year.
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Re: Manny Ramirez Rumors

Postby bigh0rt » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:36 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:Yoda: You're reaching. The draw isn't "we'll pay you more money than anyone else", they actually give talent in return. It may not be completely different, but it's at least very different. I'm talking about gutting the FA market with the strength of money instead of well-drafted talent. It takes scouting/drafting proficiency and at least decent player development to give a team's prospects trade value, but all you need to supply the Yankees' strategy is a crapload of money and access to ESPN to see who are the marquee FAs of the year.

The bottom line is the Yankees do exactly what the Cubs do except they spend a little bit more and get better players. That's the long and the short of it. There's no need to go back and forth debating something that is pretty clear as day. If the Yankees sign, for example, Manny, it will not be because the Cubs have some fundamental difference in operations; it will simply be because the Yankees are willing to give the money and years and the Cubs aren't, or the Cubs don't have interest to fill that spot.

Both of these teams trade for and sign a ton of talent, and they're far from the only teams who do so. The Yankees just do it a step above most everyone else. That doesn't mean teams like the Cubs, Sox, and Mets don't do it, though.
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