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Disgusting

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Disgusting

Postby StlSluggers » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:35 pm

Reuters.com wrote:DETROIT, Dec 19 (Reuters) - The United Auto Workers union termed the conditions in the auto bailout deal "unfair" and said it would work with the incoming Obama administration to ensure they are removed.
...
President George W. Bush offered $17.4 billion in emergency loans on Friday to the carmakers in an attempt to save General Motors Corp (GM.N) and Chrysler LLC [CBS.UL] from failing but imposed conditions that included requiring automakers to wrangle steep labor-cost concessions from the UAW.

The concession targets include making half of company contributions to a retiree health care trust in stock, making UAW wages competitive with foreign manufacturers by December 2009 and eliminating the union jobs bank, which pays laid-off workers, sometimes for years. (Reporting by Poornima Gupta; Editing by Brian Moss)

If it wasn't forbidden, I would post all seven of the forbidden words in my rant about this.

I don't care if the terms were unfair or not, this plan of action is reprehensible. Strategically, it makes perfect sense. I don't fault them there, but I still find this preconceived plan of action, and their openness about it, disgusting and repugnant.
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Re: Disgusting

Postby TheRock » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:01 pm

Exactly how "unfair" would the UAW think it was if their employers went belly up and they all lost their jobs? They'd no doubt whine that they need more money. And since they're union, they should get more unemployment benefits than normal workers. I kinda wish they'd let the Big 3 tank just so we could see the UAW kicked to the curb. :-t
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Re: Disgusting

Postby Madison » Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:05 pm

I don't know much about the UAW but the more I hear about them the worse they get.
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Re: Disgusting

Postby thedude » Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:21 pm

Not a huge fan of organized labor, but...

The UAW points out that it has already made some concessions. Last year, it renegotiated its contracts with the Big Three and agreed to cuts in wages and in pension and health-care benefits for new employees. “Major concessions were made,” said Gary N. Chaison, a labor professor at Clark University in Worcester, Mass. “And the frustrating thing for labor is that those concessions have been forgotten [in the bailout debate].

Still, as Chaison explained, the effects of the concessions aren’t that significant because the number of new hires remains small. To make a difference, he said the UAW would probably have to slash the wages of existing employees as part of any restructuring deal. And worse.

“Jobs are going to be lost, there’s no way of avoiding that,” Chaison said. “It’s just a question of when — and how many.”


http://washingtonindependent.com/22176/ ... ion-battle
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Re: Disgusting

Postby jlm53089 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:44 pm

Labor Unions killed this country.
Sure back in the day they were a great idea, but now they are just useless.
Paying some 20 dollars an hour to sweep a floor just because they are union is stupid.

They need to reform these unions and then the Auto Industry will come back and be stronger.
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Re: Disgusting

Postby Neato Torpedo » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:31 pm

How DARE they be worried that the execs won't put every cent of that bailout money towards saving the businesses? And for that matter, how DARE the unions demand to be paid a living wage for working hard? :-t
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Re: Disgusting

Postby StlSluggers » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:43 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:How DARE they be worried that the execs won't put every cent of that bailout money towards saving the businesses? And for that matter, how DARE the unions demand to be paid a living wage for working hard? :-t

I think it's more like how DARE they enter into an agreement they have no intention of honoring.

This has nothing to do with anything other than that.
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Re: Disgusting

Postby RugbyD » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:48 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:How DARE they be worried that the execs won't put every cent of that bailout money towards saving the businesses? And for that matter, how DARE the unions demand to be paid a living wage for working hard? :-t

are you saying that people who work in US Toyota or Nissan plants dont make a "living wage" or don't work hard, or both?
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Re: Disgusting

Postby RugbyD » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:55 pm

thedude wrote:Not a huge fan of organized labor, but...

The UAW points out that it has already made some concessions. Last year, it renegotiated its contracts with the Big Three and agreed to cuts in wages and in pension and health-care benefits for new employees. “Major concessions were made,” said Gary N. Chaison, a labor professor at Clark University in Worcester, Mass. “And the frustrating thing for labor is that those concessions have been forgotten [in the bailout debate].

Still, as Chaison explained, the effects of the concessions aren’t that significant because the number of new hires remains small. To make a difference, he said the UAW would probably have to slash the wages of existing employees as part of any restructuring deal. And worse.

“Jobs are going to be lost, there’s no way of avoiding that,” Chaison said. “It’s just a question of when — and how many.”


http://washingtonindependent.com/22176/ ... ion-battle

Concessions are relative to the starting point. The UAW should never have been compensated anywhere near where they started making "concessions" from. They, along with idiot management, negotiated contracts at the peak of the US auto empire that were preposterously outsized to what their labor was actually worth in a competitive environment. They basically put in a floor on what they could be paid based on the best of times. The people getting benefits that comprise the crippling legacy costs were overpaid in the first place. The only thing thaat happening is that the UAW compensation package is being brought in line with the actual value of their labor. It's not a concession, its trip back to the real world the Big 3 and UAW long ago decided to abandon.
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Re: Disgusting

Postby thedude » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:55 pm

StlSluggers wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:How DARE they be worried that the execs won't put every cent of that bailout money towards saving the businesses? And for that matter, how DARE the unions demand to be paid a living wage for working hard? :-t

I think it's more like how DARE they enter into an agreement they have no intention of honoring.

This has nothing to do with anything other than that.

That is really the crux of the debate.
jlm53089 wrote:Labor Unions killed this country.
Sure back in the day they were a great idea, but now they are just useless.
Paying some 20 dollars an hour to sweep a floor just because they are union is stupid.

They need to reform these unions and then the Auto Industry will come back and be stronger.


The auto industry has no one to blame for this situation but themselves. It takes two parties to negotiate and every CBA was signed by the auto companies.
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