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Who does more harm: the Steinbrenners or the Lorias?

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Who does more harm?

The Cheapies.
20
53%
The Spendies.
18
47%
 
Total votes : 38

Re: Who does more harm: the Steinbrenners or the Lorias?

Postby noseeum » Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:54 pm

Amazinz wrote:The game of football is not suffering. We are talking about the most popular game in the U.S. The game that dethroned baseball as America's pasttime. The game where the average team worth is $1 billion dollars (over twice as much as the average MLB team according to Forbes). The NFL is doing something right. You can call it mediocrity if you want but the masses have spoken and they like parity. :-B


We're probably getting off topic, but you are right in terms of revenue. In terms of the actual quality of play on the field, I think it's suffered, and in the long run I think that will negatively impact revenue. I might be wrong in general, but I know I'm a heck of a lot less interested in football than I was in the 80s/90s.
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Re: Who does more harm: the Steinbrenners or the Lorias?

Postby Amazinz » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:22 pm

noseeum wrote:In terms of the actual quality of play on the field, I think it's suffered, and in the long run I think that will negatively impact revenue. I might be wrong in general, but I know I'm a heck of a lot less interested in football than I was in the 80s/90s.


The NFL has played 15 seasons under the cap and the popularity has continued to grow. I don't think that that would have been able to occur if the majority of fans agreed with you. Maybe it could change but at this point I don't see how it can negatively impact revenue if the majority of fans don't recognize it.
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Re: Who does more harm: the Steinbrenners or the Lorias?

Postby noseeum » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:47 pm

Matthias wrote:Noseeum, when you say that kind of thinking cannot be tolerated in a competitive environment, I think you're thinking again from the perspective of the individual franchises. And there, I agree with you: they have to want to win. But when you're structuring the environment and considering on how to arrange the environment in which they compete, it is fair to consider what sort of balance you're creating and what your ultimate good is. I'm not so sure that the Yankees have a Lee Iacocca relationship to the MLB: what is good for the Yankees is good for baseball and what is good for baseball is good for the Yankees.

I've heard kvetching before about how the NFL prohibits dynasties nowadays, but I'd stack up a couple of the New England squads from the past few years against the 49ers of the 80's or the Cowboys of the 90's. And fundamentally, football now is about management of franchises, not built-in competitive advantages. If you manage your franchise well (Patriots) you do well. If you manage your franchise poorly (Lions) you suck eggs. That's really all you can ask for out of a competitive system.

You have a fair point on career length and free agency. You're right: if there was no pre-arbitration period and no arbitration period and it was just an open market from the get-go, it would be worse than it is. These restrictions on player options do serve to level, somewhat, the competitive balance. However, if everyone had an equally good protected-talent pool and equally good player development, then the teams that can bolster their lineup with the proven stars should win a majority of the time. And even when a team like Tampa does win, the fan base is so apathetic that their stadium was only 53% full for the season.


You're definitely helping me clarify, so keep it coming. For me, no matter what the rules are, every franchise must be only concerned with itself and must do everything it can to succeed. Yes, it is fair for the league to consider setting the structure differently to encourage competitive balance. My gripe is with owners who just wish the Yankees would back off under the current system. They should be applauded for what they're doing under the current system. They are trying to win, and that's all that can be asked of them. If the rules get changed, they'll still do their best to win.

I don't know about the Iacocca analogy, but when the Yankees provide about 25% or merchandise sales, Iacocca might not be doing them justice. MLB does about $3 billion in merchandise sales every year, so the Yankees are single-handedly providing $750 million in merchandise sales every year to be shared with the other teams. That's $25 million added to each team's top line.

In addition, they send a fairly hefty check of about $75 million for revenue sharing each year.

So the Yankees are single-handedly providing a pool of over $800 million a year to be divvied up amongst the other teams. I don't see how anyone could argue that that's bad for baseball.
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Re: Who does more harm: the Steinbrenners or the Lorias?

Postby noseeum » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:55 pm

Amazinz wrote:
noseeum wrote:In terms of the actual quality of play on the field, I think it's suffered, and in the long run I think that will negatively impact revenue. I might be wrong in general, but I know I'm a heck of a lot less interested in football than I was in the 80s/90s.


The NFL has played 15 seasons under the cap and the popularity has continued to grow. I don't think that that would have been able to occur if the majority of fans agreed with you. Maybe it could change but at this point I don't see how it can negatively impact revenue if the majority of fans don't recognize it.


I have no proof of what I'm saying anyway, so you're on much more solid footing than I. No argument here. I just think the product stinks nowadays, and sooner or later that will have to be addressed. I really think the NFL only needs minor tweaks. I like how the NBA gives you more leeway with re-signing your own players, so I think the NFL should have something similar. It's one thing to prevent a team from grabbing all FAs, but you should encourage retaining players, not discourage it.
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Re: Who does more harm: the Steinbrenners or the Lorias?

Postby ayebatter » Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:52 pm

Baseball. Blogging. Whenever.
Wednesday, December 17, 2008
The House That Corruption Built
We've long known that the Bloomberg Administration bent over to deliver all manner of financial favors to the Yankees, but now the emails are out, and it's pretty ugly:

Mayor Bloomberg's aides secretly pressured city tax assessors to inflate the value of land under the new Yankee Stadium so the team could qualify for nearly $1 billion in tax-free bonds, city e-mails show.

In March 2006, the city's chief tax assessor put the market value for the stadium site at $27 million, far lower than the Yankees wanted. A Finance Department official ordered him to redo the report. Within hours, he jacked up it up to $204 million . . .

. . . "This is the smoking gun," said Assemblyman Richard Brodsky, who has spearheaded a state probe into the stadium deal. "The professionals did their job. The political appointees then ordered them to change the assessment - and they did."


This is important, because the higher assessment allowed the Yankees to take advantage of a billion bucks in tax-exempt bonds that an honest assessment would not have.

New Yankee Stadium is built on a foundation of graft. The sad thing is, this fact will almost certainly not be mentioned by the announcers when the Bombers take the field for the first game in April because there will be too many fancy baubles on which to train the cameras.



Posted by Craig Calcaterra at 3:38pm



Not sure what to think about this, if true does this make the Yankee's spendies , cheapies, or thieves.
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Re: Who does more harm: the Steinbrenners or the Lorias?

Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:38 pm

Amazinz wrote:The game of football is not suffering. We are talking about the most popular game in the U.S. The game that dethroned baseball as America's pasttime. The game where the average team worth is $1 billion dollars (over twice as much as the average MLB team according to Forbes). The NFL is doing something right. You can call it mediocrity if you want but the masses have spoken and they like parity. :-B


...the game that has been stomped in revenue growth by baseball over the past several years...

Popularity has lots of different measures. If you ask people's favorite sport, football's king, though it has slipped the last couple years. If you look at attendance, 78 million people attended MLB games, while just 17 million attended NFL games.
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Re: Who does more harm: the Steinbrenners or the Lorias?

Postby Amazinz » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:57 pm

78 million people attended MLB games, while just 17 million attended NFL games.

The attendance potential for MLB baseball far outweighs the NFL's potential for obvious reasons.
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Re: Who does more harm: the Steinbrenners or the Lorias?

Postby raiders_umpire » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:02 pm

As a fan of one of the cheapie teams, I would say that the cheapies are worse for the sport. Does it suck to see two rivals spend $150 million plus on payroll? Yea it does as a fan of a small market team, but if I were owner and had the cash, I would definitely be putting the best team on the field that I could buy. There is nothing wrong rebuilding a franchise like the Orioles of 08, but by no means should a owner let a franchise and city suffer in the craptacular for many years just to pocket some cash.
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Re: Who does more harm: the Steinbrenners or the Lorias?

Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:58 pm

Amazinz wrote:
78 million people attended MLB games, while just 17 million attended NFL games.

The attendance potential for MLB baseball far outweighs the NFL's potential for obvious reasons.


So, can I also discount the obvious revenue and franchise value potential that the NFL has? Free minor leagues and a cojones-less player's union explains far more of the NFL "success" in those areas than any debate about spending and salary caps.
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Re: Who does more harm: the Steinbrenners or the Lorias?

Postby Amazinz » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:23 pm

Does the NFL have higher revenue potential? I doubt it based solely on the number of games played. In every other aspect the sports should have equal opportunity to generate revenue and the only area I can think of where MLB has excelled (compared to the NFL) is in the international market. And if you want to be a cynic, that wasn't even their own doing.
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