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Yankees make "free" agency exciting

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Which team will Teixeira sign for?

Anaheim
17
19%
Baltimore
7
8%
Boston
38
42%
New York Y
15
16%
Washington
11
12%
Other
3
3%
 
Total votes : 91

Re: Mark Teixeira future team? (Yankees)

Postby Neato Torpedo » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:02 am

KCollins1304 wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:
KCollins1304 wrote:
You have come off in a matter that said, "The Cubs run their organization the way that teams should be run and the Yankees don't do it right". That is why the discussion has morphed into arguing over who spent what and who acquired who. If you want a salary cap that's fine, I'm not completely opposed to one depending on exactly how it worked. You make it sound like the Yankees are murdering babies when they're just doing what they should be doing, spending the most amount that they can while making the largest profit possible. That is how capitalism works.

I have never said or implied that the Cubs are the ideal organization. I only said that the two teams are run differently (edit: and that the Cubs are run better). And they are. I still hold to the claim that what the Yankees are doing takes no real managerial or strategic skill. If there was a cap, they'd be forced to allocate money well, instead of just throwing money at the problem to fix it. The Cubs did that with Marquis, Dempster (the second time around), and Lilly, and I still think it's wrong. But the effect of signing those three players is much less than the signing of CC and Teixeira in terms of the league's competitive balance.

I wasn't around here in the '06-'07 offseason when the Cubs signed Lilly and Marquis, but I definitely bitched to my friends about it. Lilly was a pleasant surprise and was worth the $12 million over the last two seasons, but I don't see him being worth the rest of his contract which takes a huge step up in '09 and '10. Still, knowing what I knew then I'd still be against it.


What about the way the Cubs are run is better than the Yankees? The Yankees don't just sign anyone, they definitely weren't interested in Zito, Silva, Lilly, Meche, Millwood, or Marquis. Spending your money on a few huge free agents is a lot better than getting a group of mediocres. For example, Lily and Marquis' combined salaries are pretty similar to Sabathia. Who wouldn't rather have Sabathia at his salary? I say it took some skill for the Yankees to resist spending on those kinds of players and make a big play on a marquee player like Sabathia. For the Cubs being better run, the Yankees are still winning more games and making more money on a yearly basis.

IMO it doesn't take much skill or cajones to sign a player coming off a 2.70/1.12/251 season and one year removed from a Cy Young award. I'm not going to justify the signing of Lilly or Marquis, though, because that takes just as much strategic proficiency as signing Sabathia. I'm just saying that apart from Soriano, the Cubs' best players were either homegrown or came from trades. And trades usually count as "being run well" because either you have to draft good prospects and raise them well in order for them to have good trade value, or you have to have good enough scouting and player development to take on other teams young players and make them good.
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Re: Mark Teixeira future team? (Yankees)

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:05 am

Neato Torpedo wrote: And trades usually count as "being run well" because either you have to draft good prospects and raise them well in order for them to have good trade value, or you have to have good enough scouting and player development to take on other teams young players and make them good.


Or you simply have the financial capability to eat the salary of said star player, which the small-market team can no longer afford.
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Re: Mark Teixeira future team? (Yankees)

Postby KCollins1304 » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:10 am

Neato Torpedo wrote:
KCollins1304 wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:I have never said or implied that the Cubs are the ideal organization. I only said that the two teams are run differently (edit: and that the Cubs are run better). And they are. I still hold to the claim that what the Yankees are doing takes no real managerial or strategic skill. If there was a cap, they'd be forced to allocate money well, instead of just throwing money at the problem to fix it. The Cubs did that with Marquis, Dempster (the second time around), and Lilly, and I still think it's wrong. But the effect of signing those three players is much less than the signing of CC and Teixeira in terms of the league's competitive balance.

I wasn't around here in the '06-'07 offseason when the Cubs signed Lilly and Marquis, but I definitely bitched to my friends about it. Lilly was a pleasant surprise and was worth the $12 million over the last two seasons, but I don't see him being worth the rest of his contract which takes a huge step up in '09 and '10. Still, knowing what I knew then I'd still be against it.


What about the way the Cubs are run is better than the Yankees? The Yankees don't just sign anyone, they definitely weren't interested in Zito, Silva, Lilly, Meche, Millwood, or Marquis. Spending your money on a few huge free agents is a lot better than getting a group of mediocres. For example, Lily and Marquis' combined salaries are pretty similar to Sabathia. Who wouldn't rather have Sabathia at his salary? I say it took some skill for the Yankees to resist spending on those kinds of players and make a big play on a marquee player like Sabathia. For the Cubs being better run, the Yankees are still winning more games and making more money on a yearly basis.

IMO it doesn't take much skill or cajones to sign a player coming off a 2.70/1.12/251 season and one year removed from a Cy Young award. I'm not going to justify the signing of Lilly or Marquis, though, because that takes just as much strategic proficiency as signing Sabathia. I'm just saying that apart from Soriano, the Cubs' best players were either homegrown or came from trades. And trades usually count as "being run well" because either you have to draft good prospects and raise them well in order for them to have good trade value, or you have to have good enough scouting and player development to take on other teams young players and make them good.


And that point lead to you being told how there were only 5 out of 25 current Yankees that came via FA. The Cubs and Yankees have built their team through the same strategy. I say the Yankees are currently run better because they are making more money and winning more games.

You say it takes the same lack of skill to sign Marquis and Lilly as Sabathia, the main difference is that one of them is a hell of a lot better than the other. The Yankees could have signed Marqus and Lilly if they wanted, they could have offered them a little more money. They didn't though, because they aren't worth that much. And for the same money, they have Sabathia.
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Re: Mark Teixeira future team? (Yankees)

Postby Neato Torpedo » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:39 am

KCollins1304 wrote:And that point lead to you being told how there were only 5 out of 25 current Yankees that came via FA. The Cubs and Yankees have built their team through the same strategy. I say the Yankees are currently run better because they are making more money and winning more games.

:-/ I thought we were past this "the Yankees have 5 FA and the Cubs have 6" garbage. To that I say:

    1 - The main issue everyone has with the Yankees is that they sign the most SUPERSTARS not that they sign the most PLAYERS.
    2 - You could sign 15 Kevin Millars and still not have one Teixeira and setting the two equal is a fantasy.
    3 - Signing Ryan Dempster at 300k/year in 2004 coming off a 6.54 ERA season and TJ surgery is not equal to signing CC Sabathia off a 2.70/1.12/251 year and one year removed from a Cy Young.
    4 - Signing 5 FA as utility players or back-end starters is not equal to signing two FA that are arguably top 3 in the league at their positions.

Thanks for not listening. :-/

KCollins1304 wrote:You say it takes the same lack of skill to sign Marquis and Lilly as Sabathia, the main difference is that one of them is a hell of a lot better than the other. The Yankees could have signed Marqus and Lilly if they wanted, they could have offered them a little more money. They didn't though, because they aren't worth that much. And for the same money, they have Sabathia.

The Cubs didn't go too hard after Zito and Schmidt, which turned out to be hella smart considering they both sucked worse than Lilly and Marquis but were paid at least twice as much per year. And if you recall, the Yankees did that with Igawa, and thought their rotation was set with Pettitte, Mussina, Hughes, and Wang. All you had to do if you were the Yankees this year is throw a crapload of money at two superstars. That's what the Giants and Dodgers did with Zito and Schmidt that year, and it turned out to be a crazy dumb move for each.
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Re: Mark Teixeira future team? (Yankees)

Postby Neato Torpedo » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:42 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote: And trades usually count as "being run well" because either you have to draft good prospects and raise them well in order for them to have good trade value, or you have to have good enough scouting and player development to take on other teams young players and make them good.


Or you simply have the financial capability to eat the salary of said star player, which the small-market team can no longer afford.

Lee and Ramirez came in that way but they were traded to the Cubs well before the peak of their careers.
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Re: Mark Teixeira future team? (Yankees)

Postby Mugrila » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:52 am

laxguy8947 wrote:
KCollins1304 wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:I say this without hyperbole, the Yankees are the worst people ever in the history of the world.


:-b


I would agree with this statement, but there's one thing I hate more in the world of sports than a Yankee: a Hokie %-6


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Re: Mark Teixeira future team? (Yankees)

Postby KCollins1304 » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:57 am

Neato Torpedo wrote:
KCollins1304 wrote:And that point lead to you being told how there were only 5 out of 25 current Yankees that came via FA. The Cubs and Yankees have built their team through the same strategy. I say the Yankees are currently run better because they are making more money and winning more games.

:-/ I thought we were past this "the Yankees have 5 FA and the Cubs have 6" garbage. To that I say:

    1 - The main issue everyone has with the Yankees is that they sign the most SUPERSTARS not that they sign the most PLAYERS.
    2 - You could sign 15 Kevin Millars and still not have one Teixeira and setting the two equal is a fantasy.
    3 - Signing Ryan Dempster at 300k/year in 2004 coming off a 6.54 ERA season and TJ surgery is not equal to signing CC Sabathia off a 2.70/1.12/251 year and one year removed from a Cy Young.
    4 - Signing 5 FA as utility players or back-end starters is not equal to signing two FA that are arguably top 3 in the league at their positions.

Thanks for not listening. :-/

KCollins1304 wrote:You say it takes the same lack of skill to sign Marquis and Lilly as Sabathia, the main difference is that one of them is a hell of a lot better than the other. The Yankees could have signed Marqus and Lilly if they wanted, they could have offered them a little more money. They didn't though, because they aren't worth that much. And for the same money, they have Sabathia.

The Cubs didn't go too hard after Zito and Schmidt, which turned out to be hella smart considering they both sucked worse than Lilly and Marquis but were paid at least twice as much per year. And if you recall, the Yankees did that with Igawa, and thought their rotation was set with Pettitte, Mussina, Hughes, and Wang. All you had to do if you were the Yankees this year is throw a crapload of money at two superstars. That's what the Giants and Dodgers did with Zito and Schmidt that year, and it turned out to be a crazy dumb move for each.


Your arguments just keep going in circles, as each point is disproved you change your focus. Your point before was that the Cubs trade for players and have homegrown talent, suggesting the Yankees don't also. Fact is, the Yankees do the same thing. If a team signs 15 Kevin Millars instead of signing Teixeira when they cost the same, then they're stupid. There are limits on how many Type A FA you can sign per offseason. Your problem boils down to that the Yankees do everything the Cubs do bigger and better. If the Cubs had Mark Cuban as their owner, they would be following suit and you would be cheering them on. A team with a $60M payroll could make these same arguments that you make against the Yankees about how big and bad the Cubs are. Why shouldn't the Cubs spend that much? Why shouldn't the Yankees spend what they do?
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Re: Mark Teixeira future team? (Yankees)

Postby DeadWinterDay » Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:14 am

Neato Torpedo wrote:I have never said or implied that the Cubs are the ideal organization. I only said that the two teams are run differently (edit: and that the Cubs are run better). And they are. I still hold to the claim that what the Yankees are doing takes no real managerial or strategic skill.

we havnt won a title in 100 years, but we're better than you!
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Re: Yankees make "free" agency exciting

Postby HOOTIE » Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:16 am

Boring

It's like turning on the news and hearing Bill Gates and Tiger Woods just won the lottery.

I hope NY wins the next 10 years, then maybe MLB will enact something better.
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Re: Mark Teixeira future team? (Yankees)

Postby Neato Torpedo » Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:32 am

DeadWinterDay wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:I have never said or implied that the Cubs are the ideal organization. I only said that the two teams are run differently (edit: and that the Cubs are run better). And they are. I still hold to the claim that what the Yankees are doing takes no real managerial or strategic skill.

we havnt won a title in 100 years, but we're better than you!

:-/ Sigh. Looks like nobody wants to understand my point, or something.
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