knapplc wrote:You really need to dust up on your social history. There simply isn't evidence to support these kinds of conclusions, especially American society. Levels of education/literacy are far higher today than they were in the first half of the last century, and America is one of the most literate, educated societies the world has ever seen.
My grandmother dropped out of school in the 4th grade to work on the family farm. I don't disagree when you speak of education/literacy levels.
I'm talking common sense dumb when I speak of education. Doesn't really matter to me if someone can read, recite, and understand Shakespeare if they are too stupid to realize that sticking a fork in a lightsocket is a bad idea.
Kids have been sticking forks in lightsockets (or any other act that competely ignores common sense) since you were a kid, and your parents were kids, and so on and so forth. It's not that more kids are doing it now, or that what they're doing is even more irrational -- what they're doing now is simply more congruent with today in general, and now they webcam it and broadcast it to the world, when previously they'd tape it with a handheld video camera and show it to whoever could make it to someone's house to see it on TV, and before that it would be in front of as many people who could gather to see them do it and then whoever believed them when it spread via word of mouth, etc.
If I can somehow work more of this research into my Graduate Research Papers in the Spring I definitely will. Because this interested me back when I did it as an Undergrad, and I'm still interested in it. However, I'm doing so much damn research as is, I can't justify doing more that isn't mandated from me.
knapplc wrote:You really need to dust up on your social history. There simply isn't evidence to support these kinds of conclusions, especially American society. Levels of education/literacy are far higher today than they were in the first half of the last century, and America is one of the most literate, educated societies the world has ever seen.
My grandmother dropped out of school in the 4th grade to work on the family farm. I don't disagree when you speak of education/literacy levels.
I'm talking common sense dumb when I speak of education. Doesn't really matter to me if someone can read, recite, and understand Shakespeare if they are too stupid to realize that sticking a fork in a lightsocket is a bad idea.
Kids have been sticking forks in lightsockets (or any other act that competely ignores common sense) since you were a kid, and your parents were kids, and so on and so forth. It's not that more kids are doing it now, or that what they're doing is even more irrational -- what they're doing now is simply more congruent with today in general, and now they webcam it and broadcast it to the world, when previously they'd tape it with a handheld video camera and show it to whoever could make it to someone's house to see it on TV, and before that it would be in front of as many people who could gather to see them do it and then whoever believed them when it spread via word of mouth, etc.
If I can somehow work more of this research into my Graduate Research Papers in the Spring I definitely will. Because this interested me back when I did it as an Undergrad, and I'm still interested in it. However, I'm doing so much damn research as is, I can't justify doing more that isn't mandated from me.
The fork/lightsocket was simply an example. I've used "lack of education" as to come across a little nicer, rather than just say people are stupid or idiots.
But what you're arguing is that parents have done what the guy in this story did (the fighting, not the taping/internet part) for many generations and that it was actually more prevelant in the past. That is where I disagree. I've never heard of a parent doing something like this before, and don't know anyone who's ever heard of this type of thing before. Dumb + dumb = even more dumb. All the dumb stuff people did in the past are still being done and add in the new ways people are proving their stupidity, and you get "more dumb", which is basically what that really little post I made in response to this story said.
Yes doctor, I am sick. Sick of those who are spineless. Sick of those who feel self-entitled. Sick of those who are hypocrites. Yes doctor, an army is forming. Yes doctor, there will be a war. Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Mad, what everyone is telling you is that parents, children - heck, people in general - have been doing things like this for time out of mind, not that they have done this exact thing.
The value of a human life used to be next to nothing. People were a disposable commodity for millennia. The way we see the "common man" as valuable today is a new concept.
I would agree with you that we're compounding our stupid with new ways to be stupid, but that doesn't make this kind of behavior in general a new thing.
knapplc wrote:I would agree with you that we're compounding our stupid with new ways to be stupid,
That's what I said in my first post about this!
And yet somehow here we are talking about the nuances.
Yes doctor, I am sick. Sick of those who are spineless. Sick of those who feel self-entitled. Sick of those who are hypocrites. Yes doctor, an army is forming. Yes doctor, there will be a war. Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
I think that we often just don't express ourselves very well, or understand what each other is saying. I've often thought that a large portion of the 'arguments' here on the Cafe are largely misunderstandings, or like you said, just debates over nuances.
knapplc wrote:I think that we often just don't express ourselves very well, or understand what each other is saying. I've often thought that a large portion of the 'arguments' here on the Cafe are largely misunderstandings, or like you said, just debates over nuances.
Well I gotta admit that most of the discussions I get involved in is due to being on the opposte side of the coin as to whoever I'm talking with.
In this case though, I made what I thought was a harmless comment and we turned it much bigger. Meh, all is cool.
Yes doctor, I am sick. Sick of those who are spineless. Sick of those who feel self-entitled. Sick of those who are hypocrites. Yes doctor, an army is forming. Yes doctor, there will be a war. Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
I don't think it's any marked increase in "common sense dumb", it's just that you hear about it more often since the media loves to report stupid s t because people eat it up. With the advent of the internet and whatnot, any old fool can blog about how his neighbor tried to pleasure himself with a circle saw. The same stuff's been happening forever, it's just that now you actually hear about it because there's actually an outlet for it.
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by bigh0rt » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:09 pm 
t because people eat it up. With the advent of the internet and whatnot, any old fool can blog about how his neighbor tried to pleasure himself with a circle saw. The same stuff's been happening forever, it's just that now you actually hear about it because there's actually an outlet for it.
