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Are you kidding me?

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Re: Are you kidding me?

Postby rookies and cream » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:10 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:In an effort to save this thread some credibility, here are my rough picks...

AL MVP:
1. Grady Sizemore
2. Kevin Youkilis
3. Justin Morneau
4. Josh Hamilton
5. Nick Markakis
6. Alex Rodriguez
7. Aubrey Huff
8. Dustin Pedroia
9. Carlos Quentin
10. Milton Bradley

NL MVP:
1. Albert Pujols
2. Lance Berkman
3. Hanley Ramirez
4. David Wright
5. Chase Utley
6. Jose Reyes
7. Carlos Beltran
8. Ryan Ludwick
9. Matt Holliday
10. Chipper Jones

AL Cy Young:
1. Cliff Lee
2. Roy Halladay
3. Jon Lester

NL Cy Young:
1. Johan Santana
2. Tim Lincecum
3. Cole Hamels


I don't think Grady is the AL MVP, though I'm not so sure who is. Probably Quentin, Hamilton, or Morneau. Two Orioles in the top 10 for AL MVP? :-? As much as I hate to say it, Howard needs to be in the conversation for NL MVP, probably top 3.
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Re: Are you kidding me?

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:25 am

Sizemore led the league in RC, finished 2nd in VORP behind only A-Rod, tied for 2nd in Win Shares and plays plus defense. He might not be an ideal choice, but there is no clear cut winner in the AL and I think he was as good as anyone. Picking an AL MVP is difficult, though.

Those two Orioles had big seasons, why shouldn't they be in the top 10? Markakis was top 5 in RC, RC/27, and finished just outside the top 5 in OPS+ and just outside top 10 in VORP. Huff finished top 5 in OPS+, 6th in RC, 4th in VORP and top 10 in RC/27.

Howard is incredibly overrated. For all his homeruns, he finished with the 14th best OPS in the NL, 8th in RC, and his RC/27 was did not compare with other MVP candidates. He finished an incredible 31st in the NL in VORP. He finished with 18 WS, outside the top 35 in the NL. Ryan Howard should not sniff the MVP.
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Re: Are you kidding me?

Postby jfg » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:04 am

No Mauer in your top 10 Bronx? I think I'd have him at least at #2. A player who's team is not in the playoffs should win MVP this year considering Pedroia doesn't deserve it (even though he'll probably win it). I'd have to say if I'm going to choose a player and not look at the standing I'd go ARod or Mauer. Morneau's RBI would not be there if it weren't for Mauer and I don't think there's a better defensive catcher in the game. It's not right that a catcher gets penalized for missing games. That should be negated by the fact that if good enough, the catcher is the most important player on the team.

But, I don't get why ARod is getting dumped on. He had as good of a season, if not better than anybody in the AL.
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Re: Are you kidding me?

Postby MasterX1918 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:06 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:Sizemore led the league in RC, finished 2nd in VORP behind only A-Rod, tied for 2nd in Win Shares and plays plus defense. He might not be an ideal choice, but there is no clear cut winner in the AL and I think he was as good as anyone. Picking an AL MVP is difficult, though.

I agree without you, but sadly the team he's on isn't quite good enough for him to win mvp. It's the same reason why Josh Hamilton isn't seen in discussions any more. Pujols is a different story though due to his great numbers that nobody else comes close too. I still think Manny should be in discussions though since he is, in my mind, the sole reason that the Dodgers won the NL West. the AL really doesn't have a clear cut MVP; they should just give it to Hamilton to complete the script for his movie.
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Re: Are you kidding me?

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:14 am

jfg wrote:No Mauer in your top 10 Bronx? I think I'd have him at least at #2. A player who's team is not in the playoffs should win MVP this year considering Pedroia doesn't deserve it (even though he'll probably win it). I'd have to say if I'm going to choose a player and not look at the standing I'd go ARod or Mauer. Morneau's RBI would not be there if it weren't for Mauer and I don't think there's a better defensive catcher in the game. It's not right that a catcher gets penalized for missing games. That should be negated by the fact that if good enough, the catcher is the most important player on the team.

But, I don't get why ARod is getting dumped on. He had as good of a season, if not better than anybody in the AL.


Mauer is an interesting case. His numbers really don't compare to the rest of the guys I listed, but he does get a big boost in value because he's a catcher. His VORP ranks right up there at 56.4 and he's also one of the league leaders in Win Shares. Still though, he doesn't really have much else going for him. His OPS, RC, etc. don't stack up with the rest of the guys. If you wanted to stick him somewhere at the end of my list, I probably wouldn't have a gripe with that. As I said, that was just a rough list I put together in about 15-20 minutes. I could probably do a better job if I spent some more time.

It's sad that A-Rod is getting overlooked but Quentin still seems to be getting so much love. The only reason he doesn't get more love from me is because of the time he missed. His OPS, VORP, WS are all great. He lags behind in RC because he missed games. Had it not been for the injury, A-Rod is easily the 2008 MVP. Even his counting stats would have projected somewhere around 40 HR and 120 RBI, which might have given him a chance to actually win the award.

MasterX1918 wrote:I agree without you, but sadly the team he's on isn't quite good enough for him to win mvp. It's the same reason why Josh Hamilton isn't seen in discussions any more. Pujols is a different story though due to his great numbers that nobody else comes close too. I still think Manny should be in discussions though since he is, in my mind, the sole reason that the Dodgers won the NL West. the AL really doesn't have a clear cut MVP; they should just give it to Hamilton to complete the script for his movie.


Oh, I don't expect Sizemore to finish anywhere near the MVP. His counting stats aren't that great looking on the surface. But looking at RC, VORP, etc. I think he's got just as good and probably a better case to win the MVP than any of the other guys. I disagree with Manny. He absolutely dominated the last two months, but 2 months of Manny still doesn't come near 6 months of others. It simply isn't comparable. Sure, Manny's presence might have put the Dodgers over the top in THEIR division, but that doesn't mean he was the most valuable. If he had played a full season, or even most of a season with that production, sure, but 2 months to 6 months is incomparable, IMO.
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Re: Are you kidding me?

Postby SpecialFNK » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:37 am

im not going to argue about this writers picks. i dont care what he thinks.
people dont seem to really know what the MVP award really is. it is NOT based on who had the best statistics. its not the award for the best player. wheather it should be or not, it never has been. how valuable a player is is not just determined by statistics. wheather you dont agree with it or not how a team does effects how a player is considered for the MVP. right or wrong, it has always been that way.
Carlos Delgado would get more consideration if the Mets had made the playoffs. they didnt, not because of him but he suffers because of it. fair or not.
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Re: Are you kidding me?

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:39 am

SpecialFNK wrote:im not going to argue about this writers picks. i dont care what he thinks.
people dont seem to really know what the MVP award really is. it is NOT based on who had the best statistics. its not the award for the best player. wheather it should be or not, it never has been. how valuable a player is is not just determined by statistics. wheather you dont agree with it or not how a team does effects how a player is considered for the MVP. right or wrong, it has always been that way.
Carlos Delgado would get more consideration if the Mets had made the playoffs. they didnt, not because of him but he suffers because of it. fair or not.


You're not getting it.

We aren't debating whether or not the system is that way. We know it is. We are saying that it shouldn't be. It's ridiculous.
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Re: Are you kidding me?

Postby Grouperman941 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:51 am

This thread reminded me of this article.

It would be pretty ironic if Howard won over Pujols again with the playoff situations reversed.
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Re: Are you kidding me?

Postby Pogotheostrich » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:04 am

Grouperman941 wrote:This thread reminded me of this article.

It would be pretty ironic if Howard won over Pujols again with the playoff situations reversed.

Especially when Pujols was the better player both years.
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