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Congrats to Mussina on 20 wins!

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Re: Congrats to Mussina on 20 wins!

Postby Amatter32 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:21 pm

Mussina's Stats:

Top 5 in Cy Young Voting 6 times
5 All-Star games
270 wins
Longest streak of 10 win seasons ever
6 Gold Gloves
6 seasons top 5 in K's

Career Average: 17-9 225.2 IP 178 K 3.68 ERA 1.192 WHIP
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Re: Congrats to Mussina on 20 wins!

Postby Art Vandelay » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:35 pm

Amatter32 wrote:Top 5 in Cy Young Voting 6 times
5 All-Star games
6 Gold Gloves

Meh.

Amatter32 wrote:270 wins
Longest streak of 10 win seasons ever

These are a product of being good and consistent for a long time, not because he's a great pitcher.

Amatter32 wrote:6 seasons top 5 in K's

So one out of every three seasons he's played he's finished in the top five in strikeouts? Color me not particularly impressed.

Mussina is like the poster boy for the Hall of Very Good. He's had a career that most will never come close to, but I can't justify advocating for someone to get into the Hall unless they have, for even a brief period during their career, shown actual greatness.
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Re: Congrats to Mussina on 20 wins!

Postby mweir145 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:33 pm

I have to admit, Mussina was pretty damn good in my Ken Griffey Jr. N64 game that I played last night. Did a good job shutting down my 1997 Mariners lineup with guys like Joey Cora, ARod, Griffey, Martinez and Jay Buhner. :-D
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Re: Congrats to Mussina on 20 wins!

Postby Dan Lambskin » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:48 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
Mussina is like the poster boy for the Hall of Very Good. He's had a career that most will never come close to, but I can't justify advocating for someone to get into the Hall unless they have, for even a brief period during their career, shown actual greatness.


i agree with Art...if he had put up these same stats playing in KC rather than NY for the bulk of his career, he probably wouldnt even sniff the hall (just to clarify, if he posted those stats on a decade of crappy Royals teams, then that would be impressive...i'm more trying to state that his media market inflates his Hall worthyness)
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Re: Congrats to Mussina on 20 wins!

Postby noseeum » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:26 pm

Dan Lambskin wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
Mussina is like the poster boy for the Hall of Very Good. He's had a career that most will never come close to, but I can't justify advocating for someone to get into the Hall unless they have, for even a brief period during their career, shown actual greatness.


i agree with Art...if he had put up these same stats playing in KC rather than NY for the bulk of his career, he probably wouldnt even sniff the hall (just to clarify, if he posted those stats on a decade of crappy Royals teams, then that would be impressive...i'm more trying to state that his media market inflates his Hall worthyness)


From 1992 to 2003 he was one of the best pitchers in baseball. 8 times in the top 6 for Cy Young. In 5 out of the 10 years he was with Baltimore they had a losing record.

The Orioles had a couple of good years while he played for them and a bunch of bad years. They made the playoffs twice.

You guys are just starting with an impression, "Mussina was always just pretty good," and finding justifications for it. While on the Orioles and his first few years with the Yanks he was easily a top 5 pitcher in the AL, behind three all time studs, Pedro, Roger, and Unit. Since there are very few periods in baseball where you have a trio like that, I don't think you hold it against Mussina that he was right behind them.
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Re: Congrats to Mussina on 20 wins!

Postby markj11 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:18 pm

mweir145 wrote:I have to admit, Mussina was pretty damn good in my Ken Griffey Jr. N64 game that I played last night. Did a good job shutting down my 1997 Mariners lineup with guys like Joey Cora, ARod, Griffey, Martinez and Jay Buhner. :-D


Nice, can't beat 97 M's or Rockies.
I ain't askin' nobody for nothin, If I can't get it on my own. - Charlie Daniels
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Re: Congrats to Mussina on 20 wins!

Postby Yoda » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:29 pm

noseeum wrote:You guys are just starting with an impression, "Mussina was always just pretty good," and finding justifications for it. While on the Orioles and his first few years with the Yanks he was easily a top 5 pitcher in the AL, behind three all time studs, Pedro, Roger, and Unit. Since there are very few periods in baseball where you have a trio like that, I don't think you hold it against Mussina that he was right behind them.


He wasn't just pretty good. He was very good but I wouldn't say great. Maybe he was great for a season or two but you have to look at his peers. When you talk about Pedro, Clemens, Unit, Maddux, you instantly think of them as HOFers and there is a reason for that. They were great. Even Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling have more accomplishments than Mussina.

The bottom line is, you have to draw the line somewhere. I don't look at Mussina and think that he is a HOFer.
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Re: Congrats to Mussina on 20 wins!

Postby BritSox » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:00 pm

His career is clearly better than Jim Bunning's, FWIW.
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Re: Congrats to Mussina on 20 wins!

Postby bigken117 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:08 pm

yeah, I agree with most of what is being said that Mussina belongs in the Hall of Very Good, but not the Hall of Fame.
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Re: Congrats to Mussina on 20 wins!

Postby Rhydderch » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:32 am

I wonder how this discussion would change if Mussina played 3 more seasons and won 300 games (at 270 now)? Then, like Craig Biggio, I think he gets it despite never being dominant.
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