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C.C. for Cy? MVP?

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Re: C.C. for Cy? MVP?

Postby Yoda » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:58 pm

markj11 wrote:
Yoda wrote:Half a point plus in ERA is huge.

CC --> 6 CG 3 SHO 1.56 ERA .97 WHIP
Lince --> 2 CG 1 SHO 2.68 ERA 1.07 WHIP
Santana --> 3 CG 2 SHO 2.17 ERA 1.10 WHIP

Eh... what were their RA? FIP? Also you have to account for CC's league change midseason since no one in NL faced him before. That is a big advantage.

I don't know what these really mean but I'm guessing the lower the better? Also, I could not find just second half stats for Lince or Santana. Should we compare Santana's first half instead since it was his first in the NL? I just don't see why so many try to dismiss what a great second half CC had.

CC --> 2.14 RA 2.51 FIP
Lince --> 2.85 RA 2.67 FIP
Santana --> 2.84 RA 3.51 FIP

How exactly is anyone trying to dismiss CC's great second half? Is it because we don't believe that he deserves the Cy based on 3 months? :-?

You are doing the opposite by talking up CC's great second half. You are discounting what Lincecum and Santana did in their first half. How does that make any sense whatsoever?

The award is called 2008 NL Cy Young. Not 2008 Post All Star Break NL Cy Young or 2008 3 months NL Cy Young. Get over it.


Holy cow man, when you are proven statically incorrect don't go ape sh*t. You asked for RA and FIP.


Yoda wrote:I'd argue that either Tim or Santana would have done just as well.



They didn't. I provided stats and you provided, well I provided your stats for you. Is there more you want to argue?


Great so CC had slightly better stats. That doesn't prove that Tim or Santana would not have provided the same push. Or any other top pitcher.
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Re: C.C. for Cy? MVP?

Postby Ender » Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:51 pm

Sabathia was the best pitcher in baseball this year. Just comes down to whether or not you want to include his AL stats along with his NL stats. For my money they should count since he was moving from the tougher league to the easier one but my money doesn't count and that is probably why Howard will win MVP.
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Re: C.C. for Cy? MVP?

Postby BigBlue » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:49 pm

Ender wrote:Sabathia was the best pitcher in baseball this year. Just comes down to whether or not you want to include his AL stats along with his NL stats.


If you want to look over an entire year, CC was NOT the best pitcher in baseball... I still dont get where people get this from... CC had an incredible 2nd half and a horrible first half... Lincecum continued to dominate from beginning to end...
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Re: C.C. for Cy? MVP?

Postby mweir145 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:04 pm

Ender wrote:Sabathia was the best pitcher in baseball this year.

Wrong, that would be Roy Halladay.
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Re: C.C. for Cy? MVP?

Postby J35J » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:11 pm

BigBlue wrote:CC had an incredible 2nd half and a horrible first half... Lincecum continued to dominate from beginning to end...


Correction....CC had a bad first 4 starts and an incredible season thereafter. I think CC, Roy, Linc and Santana all has an arguement for the best pitcher this year. Don't discount the # of innings CC put up and the 10 CG and 5 SHO either....compared to 2CG and 1SHO for Linc. In real baseball these types of things matter much more than in fantasy.
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Re: C.C. for Cy? MVP?

Postby mweir145 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:43 pm

My biased way of looking at it has them ranked like this, and it mostly has to do with the difficulty of their competition.

1. Halladay (.766 OPP OPS)
2. Sabathia (.736 OPP OPS in CLE, . 710 OPS in MIL)
3. Lincecum (.730 OPP OPS)
4. Lee (.735 OPP OPS)
5. Santana (.737 OPP OPS)

Halladay has stats that are just as good, if not better than all these guys, but he pitches in a much tougher division than any of them. Put him anywhere else and there's not even a question about who had the better season.
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Re: C.C. for Cy? MVP?

Postby RynMan » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:08 am

mweir145 wrote:My biased way of looking at it has them ranked like this, and it mostly has to do with the difficulty of their competition.


You are usually a little biased, but not here. :-)

This is perfectly logical to me, and I think you have a strong case. The season that Roy Halladay put up in that division is ridiculous.
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Re: C.C. for Cy? MVP?

Postby mweir145 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:26 pm

I'm not biased? :-B
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Re: C.C. for Cy? MVP?

Postby skjelstrom » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:43 pm

One of the main reasons Lincy didn't get as many CG or Shutouts is because he is a K pitcher. With all those K's it gives him a huge PC making his work load a lot more. CC definitely had amazing starts with Milwaukee, but he didn't have that the whole season. Lincy kept up his hard work the whole season giving MANY over 100 PC and a couple even over 120 and didn't even get CG or anything from them.
Last edited by skjelstrom on Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: C.C. for Cy? MVP?

Postby RynMan » Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:05 am

mweir145 wrote:I'm not biased? :-B


:-D
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