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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby Neato Torpedo » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:17 pm

Mugrila wrote:
SpecialFNK wrote:where does it say a hitters job is to create runs?
Howards job is to DRIVE IN runs.


Seriously?

lol
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby SpecialFNK » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:49 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:
Mugrila wrote:
SpecialFNK wrote:where does it say a hitters job is to create runs?
Howards job is to DRIVE IN runs.


Seriously?

lol


why is this funny?
do you really think when Howard is going up to the plate with noone on the fans are cheering come on Ryan just get on base?? a base hit or simply getting on base would be nice, but i bet he is more concerned with knocking one out of the park.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby bigh0rt » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:57 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:
Mugrila wrote:
Seriously?

lol


why is this funny?
do you really think when Howard is going up to the plate with noone on the fans are cheering come on Ryan just get on base?? a base hit or simply getting on base would be nice, but i bet he is more concerned with knocking one out of the park.

It is fairly obvious when looking at his K Rate and Batting Average that he is more concerned with knocking one out of the park than getting on base. How this is a good thing, more often than not, I have no idea...

Fans love HR. Fans are also, as a whole, some of the most uninformed people on the planet.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby HOOTIE » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:25 pm

Most of the people in the corner of Howard, Manny, CC, say, without them, their teams don't make the playoffs. While this is true, it also applies to countless others.

Where is Philly without Utley? Burrell? Hamels? Lidge? Rollins?
Chicago without Alexei? Dye? Danks? Quentin?
Milwaukee without Braun? Fielder?
Dodgers without Billingsley? Lowe?

Take one of those guys seasons away, and their teams don't make it.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby Neato Torpedo » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:58 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:
Mugrila wrote:
Seriously?

lol


why is this funny?
do you really think when Howard is going up to the plate with noone on the fans are cheering come on Ryan just get on base?? a base hit or simply getting on base would be nice, but i bet he is more concerned with knocking one out of the park.

1) Driving in runs is literally part of creating runs. Your misunderstanding of the term amuses me.
2) If he's only trying to hit a home run every time he comes up with the bases empty, that's a completely warped view of how to play baseball. Especially since he has two above average hitters behind him (Burrell and Victorino) both very capable of driving him in. No matter how strong you are, no matter how powerful your swing is, it's dumb to come up to the plate aiming for the seats every time.
Last edited by Neato Torpedo on Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby SpecialFNK » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:24 am

with Howard, i never said hes trying to hit a HR every time hes up, i said it looks like he might be trying to hit a HR with the bases empty/noone on base.
his situational stats seem to suggest this.
with the bases empty/noone on base..
160 games (312 AB) 61 H, 32 S, 9 D, 1 T, 22 HR, 36 BB, 111 K - .196 AVG/ .281 OBP/ .442 SLG/ .723 OPS
but he was a different hitter with runners on.
runners on..
156 games (298 AB) 92 H, 46 S, 17 D, 3 T, 26 HR, 45 BB, 88 K - .309 AVG/ .396 OBP/ .648 SLG/ 1.044 OPS
RISP..
135 games (175 AB) 56 H, 33 S, 11 D, 0 T, 12 HR, 41 BB, 54 K - .320 AVG/ .439 OBP/ .589 SLG/ 1.028 OPS
RISP w2 outs..
96 games (87 AB) 28 H, 18 S, 5 D, 0 T, 5 HR, 23 BB, 29 K - .322 AVG/ .468 OBP/ .552 SLG/ 1.020 OPS

his numbers with noone on/bases empty tell me he was probually up there looking to hit a HR.

as for playoff teams having other players who contributed to their teams success, i dont think you say the same thing for the Dodgers. the Dodgers lead the NL in ERA, but before Manny arrived they didnt have much of an offence. sure they still had players like Kemp, Ethier, Loney, Martin, ect ..but had the Dodgers won the west without acquiring Manny none of those players would even be in consideration for MVP. Manny had 17 HR in only 53 games. Ethier lead the Dodgers with 20 HR in 141 games, and Kemp was 2nd with 18 HR in 155 games. Manny almost beat them in alot less games (88 less than Ethier, 102 less than Kemp).
it can be argued than Manny offensivey is what got the Dodgers into the playoffs, and with the offensive numbers he put up should get serious consideration for the MVP.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby BronXBombers51 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:26 am

Alright guys, it's probably time to call it quits. This guy isn't getting the fact that comparing 2 months of stats to 6 months is ridiculous. Apparently we are supposed to discriminate against players who had a lack of support around them or played in a tough division, and favor players who had extra support and played in a weaker division. :-°
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby Neato Torpedo » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:35 am

SpecialFNK wrote:with Howard, i never said hes trying to hit a HR every time hes up, i said it looks like he might be trying to hit a HR with the bases empty/noone on base.
his situational stats seem to suggest this.

his numbers with noone on/bases empty tell me he was probually up there looking to hit a HR.

Please re-read (or probably more accurately, drop the re-) my second point. Here it is for your convenience:

2) If he's only trying to hit a home run every time he comes up with the bases empty, that's a completely warped view of how to play baseball. Especially since he has two above average hitters behind him (Burrell and Victorino) both very capable of driving him in. No matter how strong you are, no matter how powerful your swing is, it's dumb to come up to the plate aiming for the seats every time.
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Rocinante2: lmao

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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby SpecialFNK » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:43 am

im not saying Howard should or should not have been trying to hit a HR, im saying based on the stats thats probually what he was doing.

so if a player plays in a weaker division should their stats be looked at with less value? maybe thats why Pujols lost the MVP award in 2006 because the Cardinals were only 83-78.
the Dodgers overall this season were 84-78, ive allready posted what their record was WITH Manny and thats 30-24. if you do the math that means before Manny the Dodgers were 54-54, a .500 team.
and again were back to what the award IS. the big "V" in Valuable, its the most VALUABLE player. it is NOT given to the best player nor the player with the best stats. its given to the player who was the most VALUABLE. Mannys value to the Dodgers in his 2 months was worth more than Pujols value to the Cardinals over his 6 months. its not about comparing their seasonal stats.
Pujols and the other hitters on St.Louis on a full season couldnt get the Cardinals into the playoffs. because of Manny the Dodgers were able to go from a .500 team into a playoff team. weak division or not the Dodgers were only 2 games less than St.Louis at 86-76.
without Manny the Dodgers would not be in the playoffs.. and again the teams success fair or not has an effect on the award.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby Yoda » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:48 am

wow this is still going on?
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
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