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Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby HOOTIE » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:33 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:where does it say a hitters job is to create runs?
Howards job is to DRIVE IN runs. he doesnt get paid to simply get on base, he gets paid to drive in the runners. thats why he is the cleanup hitter. when he comes up with runners on i doubt he is trying to get himself on base. he wants to get them runners home, and he did that better than anyone else in baseball.
Howard has weak numbers with noone on base. im thinking one reason for this is because he wasnt concerned with getting on base, but instead he was trying to drive himself in with a HR, which is why in 311 AB with noone on base he had 111 K, but 22 HR.
look at all the previous winners of the MVP award. its not just given to the best player. how a team does has an effect on who wins the award. if the award simply went to the best player there wouldnt be any voting needed, it would be an easy answer as to who would win the MVP each season. you could also have players simply worrying about their own stats instead of the teams success.
how often does the award go to a player on a non playoff team? not very often


A hitters job is to create runs. A pitchers job is to prevent them. Howards rbi chances are really luck. How many chances would he get on the Nationals? Howard should have alot of rbis, given his rbi chances. You still ignore the significance of outs made.

There are years when the best player is close. Some writers, take the playoff notion into their own mind. Kornheiser saying Manny/CC are the MVP/CY is a perfect example. Tony can afford a nice ladder, to cherry pick 3 months worth of stats.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby Yoda » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:49 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:where does it say a hitters job is to create runs?
Howards job is to DRIVE IN runs.


You do realize that driving runs is part of creating runs? The objective of the game is to score more runs than your opponent. Your objective as a hitter is to help your team score runs.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby Mugrila » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:51 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:where does it say a hitters job is to create runs?
Howards job is to DRIVE IN runs.


Seriously?
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby bigh0rt » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:56 pm

Some of the opinions in this thread make me want to throw up.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby Mr. T » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:57 pm

So specialfnk, if the Cardinals had a better bullpin would you vote Pujuls to be the MVP? They blew 34 saves this season. A few of those wins would have had the Birds in the playoffs.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby SpecialFNK » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:22 am

the Cardinals bullpen was terrible. if they had a shut down closer all season and didnt blow so many saves they would be in the playoffs. if that was the case i guarantee you there would be no doubt Pujols would get more consideration for MVP because the numbers he put up all season including September would be looked at as to why they would have made the playoffs. its flawed yes i know that, but thats the way it has always been. you get more credit for helping your team get into the playoffs fair or unfair. if you dont like the way the system works write them and tell them to change it. im just saying thats the way it has usually been looked at.
how can you explain why Morneau won AL MVP in 2006 over the others in the AL who clearly had better stats? Hafner, Ramirez, Ortiz, Thome, Dye ..all had better stats than Morneau, all on non playoff teams. Morneau got his team into the playoffs, and therefor was more valuable than the others.

different players in the lineup are going to have different approaches at the plate.
i explained this some allready. Howards numbers with noone on base AVG wise were terrible. i highly doubt with noone on base hes concerned with getting himself on base for the hitters behind him. he knows he has the ability to hit HR so he was more concerned with doing so in order to drive himself in.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby Bloody Sox » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:23 am

SpecialFNK wrote:the Cardinals bullpen was terrible. if they had a shut down closer all season and didnt blow so many saves they would be in the playoffs. if that was the case i guarantee you there would be no doubt Pujols would get more consideration for MVP because the numbers he put up all season including September would be looked at as to why they would have made the playoffs. its flawed yes i know that, but thats the way it has always been. you get more credit for helping your team get into the playoffs fair or unfair. if you dont like the way the system works write them and tell them to change it. im just saying thats the way it has usually been looked at.
how can you explain why Morneau won AL MVP in 2006 over the others in the AL who clearly had better stats? Hafner, Ramirez, Ortiz, Thome, Dye ..all had better stats than Morneau, all on non playoff teams. Morneau got his team into the playoffs, and therefor was more valuable than the others.

different players in the lineup are going to have different approaches at the plate.
i explained this some allready. Howards numbers with noone on base AVG wise were terrible. i highly doubt with noone on base hes concerned with getting himself on base for the hitters behind him. he knows he has the ability to hit HR so he was more concerned with doing so in order to drive himself in.

The biggest problem with everything you are writing is that you are not being clear about whether you are talking about who WILL win the MVP as opposed to who SHOULD win the MVP. Some of the stuff (like above) seem to indicate that you are talking about who will win it, while many of your other statistical arguments seem to imply that you are talking about who should win it. I think most people who are arguing with you think you are arguing that Howard SHOULD win the MVP... when I'm not actually sure that's what you are saying.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby SpecialFNK » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:23 pm

i dont think im having fun arging anymore.
im not sure i even believe all of what im arguing for, i think im just arguing for the sake of arguing because ive been bored.
im not going to argue against Pujols. he has great stats. if he wins the MVP i have no problem with that. i do think Howard is deserving, aswell as Ramirez.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby Simulacrum » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:48 pm

Does ANYONE else share Tony Korn... err, FNK's opinion regarding the MVP award?
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby Amazinz » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:17 pm

Well, yeah a lot of people do. :-b (not me)

It's not going to be popular on a forum like this but at the end of the day "most valuable" is open to interpretation.
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