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Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby BritSox » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:44 am

Pedroia, to be fair, is behind only A-Rod and Sizemore in VORP, and given the way the voters work, neither of those are going to get it. I'd go for Mauer, who's leading in WPA (Pedroia is seventh) but it's not like he's a ridiculous choice.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby Neato Torpedo » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:47 am

DSheppard wrote:Thought of this thread when I head tony kornheiser say he would split the mvp between cc/manny :-°

Did he really? 8-o
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby HOOTIE » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:26 am

SpecialFNK wrote:voting for the MVP is done by human voting. i doubt when they vote they look up what win shares players have. i also doubt they look up OPS+ or any other deep type stat that isnt easily found. there are 2 big stats that jump out to voters, and thats HR and RBI. not including todays game Howard has 48 HR and 146 RBI.
its also looked at what players do in key situations, such as helping their teams in playoff races. Howard has been huge in September for Philadelphia.


OPS+ isn't a deep stat. It's easily found on baseball-reference.com, along with batting wins, and batting runs.

Runs created, rc/27, are found easily on ESPN sortable stats, or again, baseball-reference.com

Takes 5 minutes to gather all these.

Did you see last weeks Brauns 2 walkoff hrs? We could say that about anyone. Remember in April when Utley carried Philly?

Kingman should have a ton of MVPs with all the hrs he hit. Hrs are nice, but you have to factor in outs made to get them. Howard made 120 or so more outs then Pujols.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby The G.O.A.T. » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:40 am

I don't even want to think the numbers Pujols would have put up playing 81 games in Citizens and getting to drive in Utley, Rollins, Victorino and Werth. Would just make me look dumber for passing on him this year. !+)
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby SpecialFNK » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:14 pm

people talk about Pujols as if he was the only decent hitter the Cardinals had and the only reason why they they were even able to finish 4th in their own division, maybe they should check the lineup again.
Ryan Ludwick ? 37 HR (same as Pujols), 113 RBI (3 behind Pujols), 104 R (4 more than Pujols), 40 doubles (4 behind Pujols), .299 AVG/ .375 OBP/ .591 SLG/ .966 OPS/
Troy Glaus ? 27 HR, 99 RBI
Rick Ankiel ? (120 games) 25 HR, 71 RBI

Howard is the best hitter on the Phillies team. the 2nd best hitter would be Ultley. Ludwick the 2nd best hitter on St.Louis has better stats than Utley.

please dont throw around the other hitters in the Phillies lineup, epscially considering the down year Rollins had.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:24 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:people talk about Pujols as if he was the only decent hitter the Cardinals had and the only reason why they they were even able to finish 4th in their own division, maybe they should check the lineup again.
Ryan Ludwick ? 37 HR (same as Pujols), 113 RBI (3 behind Pujols), 104 R (4 more than Pujols), 40 doubles (4 behind Pujols), .299 AVG/ .375 OBP/ .591 SLG/ .966 OPS/
Troy Glaus ? 27 HR, 99 RBI
Rick Ankiel ? (120 games) 25 HR, 71 RBI

Howard is the best hitter on the Phillies team. the 2nd best hitter would be Ultley. Ludwick the 2nd best hitter on St.Louis has better stats than Utley.

please dont throw around the other hitters in the Phillies lineup, epscially considering the down year Rollins had.


Again dude, you're using HR and RBI to suit your cause. Pujols created 142 runs this year, more than anyone. Howard ranked 8th in the National League, with 117. Utley was right behind him at 114, and Utley is a 2nd baseman. Utley's VORP wrecks Howard's because of this. Utley posted a 62.2 and Howard posted a 35.2. When Utley posts the same production at 2B as Howard at 1B, it's fairly simple to conclude that Utley was much more valuable to the Phillies.

You brought up Ludwick, who finished with 109 RC, 5 behind Utley and 33 behind Pujols. Glaus finished with 97 RC, Ankiel with 66. Even in Rollins' down year he finished with 95. Burrell was right behind him with 93. Victorino had 86.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby SpecialFNK » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:40 pm

HR and RBI have always been 2 big stats in baseball. thats a big reason why Howard won back in 2006 with 58 HR and 149 RBI.
positions a player plays shouldnt mean anything when considering them for MVP unless your taking into account what they do defensively at that position. just for arguments sake if Utley was to move to LF next season and have the exact same offensive stats, they wouldnt mean as much because he would be playing LF? if offensive numbers a player puts up mean more for certain positions then why dont teams take some of their better hitters and move them to these weaker postions? the Cardinals have a bunch of OF so maybe they should consider moving Ludwick to 2B next season, he could be much more valuable to them right? a move i highly doubt would happen. if these players are as athletic as they should be they shouldnt have such a problem becoming comfortable to a new postion defensively.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby Yoda » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:45 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:HR and RBI have always been 2 big stats in baseball. thats a big reason why Howard won back in 2006 with 58 HR and 149 RBI.
positions a player plays shouldnt mean anything when considering them for MVP unless your taking into account what they do defensively at that position. just for arguments sake if Utley was to move to LF next season and have the exact same offensive stats, they wouldnt mean as much because he would be playing LF? if offensive numbers a player puts up mean more for certain positions then why dont teams take some of their better hitters and move them to these weaker postions? the Cardinals have a bunch of OF so maybe they should consider moving Ludwick to 2B next season, he could be much more valuable to them right? a move i highly doubt would happen. if these players are as athletic as they should be they shouldnt have such a problem becoming comfortable to a new postion defensively.


:-P

Do you honestly believe that Ludwick, Glaus and Ankiel were the reason why Pujols had a great season? How sure are you about that?
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby SpecialFNK » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:58 pm

Ryan Howard is the cleanup hitter for the Phillies. what is his job? his job is to hit HR and drive in runs. he did that better than anyone else in baseball.
alot of talk about his low overall AVG. how about some other season stats..
runners on- .309 AVG/ .396 OBP/ .648 SLG/ 1.044 OPS/
RISP- .320 AVG/ .439 OBP/ .589 SLG/ 1.028 OPS/
RISP w 2 outs- .322 AVG/ .468 OBP/ .552 SLG/ 1.020 OPS/
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby The G.O.A.T. » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:15 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:Ryan Howard is the cleanup hitter for the Phillies. what is his job? his job is to hit HR and drive in runs. he did that better than anyone else in baseball.
alot of talk about his low overall AVG. how about some other season stats..
runners on- .309 AVG/ .396 OBP/ .648 SLG/ 1.044 OPS/
RISP- .320 AVG/ .439 OBP/ .589 SLG/ 1.028 OPS/
RISP w 2 outs- .322 AVG/ .468 OBP/ .552 SLG/ 1.020 OPS/


Oh you like more stats. Here are Pujols for those situations. You must be the biggest Phillies homer or 15 to continue arguing this awful argument.

runners on - .345 AVG/ .485 OBP/ .608 SLG/ 1.093 OPS
RISP - .327 AVG/ .517 OBP .637 SLG/ 1.154 OPS
RISP w 2 outs - .293 AVG/ .574 OBP/ .683 SLG/ 1.257 OPS
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