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Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby DSheppard » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:47 pm

Thought of this thread when I head tony kornheiser say he would split the mvp between cc/manny :-°
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby BronXBombers51 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:48 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:a win in April is worth the same as a win in September in the standings, but there are differences.
theres more pressure to win in September. thats why you see certain things happen, like a manager getting fired in September on a playoff chasing team (Milwaukee), a pitcher starting 3 times on 3 days rest (Sabathia). i doubt any pitcher is going to pitch on 3 days rest in April to help a team win.
so i would think a player coming up big in September on a playoff team is going to mean more than any other month of the season.


So because Howard got a few hits late in the season means he's more valuable than guys who were doing it all season long? His last few weeks erase the first few months? Again, if Howard played better from start to finish, the Phillies wouldn't have had to scratch and claw themselves into the playoffs. They would have clinched a long time ago. Just because teams are more desperate in September doesn't mean the games are worth any more. Pujols production in April helped St. Louis just the same as Howard's production in September. Pujols did it better and more consistently. He was the best player in baseball. He is thus the most valuable player.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby bigh0rt » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:56 pm

I wonder if Ryan Howard made the Mets suck in September. If so, he deserves the MVP.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby SpecialFNK » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:07 pm

Howard didnt just have a few extra hits in September, and its not like his season was average. through the entire season he did have 48 HR and 146 RBI.. more than anyone else in all of baseball AL and NL. in September he had 11 HR and 32 RBI.
the 2 biggest stats in baseball always have been HR and RBI
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby KCollins1304 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:09 pm

bigh0rt wrote:I wonder if Ryan Howard made the Mets suck in September. If so, he deserves the MVP.


If so, you should look into eradicating him. :-b
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby BronXBombers51 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:10 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:Howard didnt just have a few extra hits in September, and its not like his season was average. through the entire season he did have 48 HR and 146 RBI.. more than anyone else in all of baseball AL and NL. in September he had 11 HR and 32 RBI.
the 2 biggest stats in baseball always have been HR and RBI


Again, that's your opinion. The fact that he led the league in HR is moot since he lost OPS to Pujols which accounts for HR plus more. RBI are a team-dependent stat. You don't honestly believe that Pujols wouldn't have wiped the floor with Howard had Pujols had the Phillies' lineup around him and Howard the Cardinals? Just because HR and RBI get the most press doesn't mean they are the most useful tools in evaluating player performance. I'd suggest looking into OPS, Runs Created and VORP (Value Over Replacement Player) as a good means of judging a player's production.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby Pogotheostrich » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:25 pm

That's the thing that kills me. If Pujols and Howard were traded before the season started the Phillies would have been a better team for it. How can Howard really be more valuable?
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby KCollins1304 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:28 pm

Pujols deserves the award, that said I stopped caring who won the baseball writer awards quite a few years ago. :-°
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby HOOTIE » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:36 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:the 2 biggest stats in baseball always have been HR and RBI


They are? Maybe when i was a kid they were, but like everything else in the last 30 years, things have evolved. Hrs and rbis would look good on those caveman commercials. Even if we take only playoff teams for MVP, Howard still loses. Utley beats him in every meaningful stat. Howard didn't make my top 10 card for MVP.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby Madison » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:36 am

SpecialFNK wrote:how do you define who was the best player? it depends what stats your looking at.


All of the stats should come into play, and then the best player in the entire league should win the award. It's not the "who was the most valuable to their team" award (and as Hootie explained, Howard wasn't even the most valuable on his team, let alone the entire league), it's the "most valuable player in the league" award.

And the wins stuff is funny. :-b I bet Minnesota and Chicago would kill for an extra win from April right about now, instead of having to have a playoff game tomorrow. B-) It could be argued that locking up the division fast is more valuable than squeeking out a playoff spot right at the very end. So "when" teams get wins, is really irrelevant to anything.
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