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Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

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Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby HOOTIE » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:14 pm

Delgado for MVP?
Howard for MVP?
CC for CY?
Manny for MVP?

When will the lunacy stop?

It's becoming clear, from last year and this year, A Pujols, D Wright, and C Utley are fast becoming the most underrated players, and Howard is becoming the most overrated.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby os_gamejunkie » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:42 pm

HOOTIE wrote:Delgado for MVP?
Howard for MVP?
CC for CY?
Manny for MVP?

When will the lunacy stop?

It's becoming clear, from last year and this year, A Pujols, D Wright, and C Utley are fast becoming the most underrated players, and Howard is becoming the most overrated.


Manny and CC for MVP should be thrown out completely. Although, if wasn't for CC, Ned Yost would've been fired earlier. The Ks and poor defense rule out Howard for me. Pujols gets my vote.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby raiders_umpire » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:51 pm

HOOTIE wrote:Delgado for MVP?
Howard for MVP?
CC for CY?
Manny for MVP?

When will the lunacy stop?

It's becoming clear, from last year and this year, A Pujols, D Wright, and C Utley are fast becoming the most underrated players, and Howard is becoming the most overrated.



Absolutely sick of it. Those 3 bats are nowhere near Pujols this year.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby SpecialFNK » Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:30 pm

im tired of hearing people whine about Pujols as if hes the best player in the NL this season, hes not!
what has he done for St.Louis? they are 4th place in the own division and 5+ games out of a playoff spot.
the MVP winner doesnt say it has to go to someone who has been in the league the entire season. its pretty clear what the award is.. Most Valuable Player.
look at how valuable both Sabathia and Ramirez have been to their teams.
i dont have the exact stats, but since Randolph was replaced in NY Delgado has been one of the best hitters over that time period. id say thats pretty valuable.
Howard might not have a good overall AVG but look what hes done in September helping the Phillies get into the playoffs- .349 AVG/ 11 HR/ 32 RBI/ ..yeah good call on him being overrated, i wouldnt want him on my team.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby Neato Torpedo » Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:48 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:im tired of hearing people whine about Pujols as if hes the best player in the NL this season, hes not!
what has he done for St.Louis? they are 4th place in the own division and 5+ games out of a playoff spot.
the MVP winner doesnt say it has to go to someone who has been in the league the entire season. its pretty clear what the award is.. Most Valuable Player.
look at how valuable both Sabathia and Ramirez have been to their teams.
i dont have the exact stats, but since Randolph was replaced in NY Delgado has been one of the best hitters over that time period. id say thats pretty valuable.
Howard might not have a good overall AVG but look what hes done in September helping the Phillies get into the playoffs- .349 AVG/ 11 HR/ 32 RBI/ ..yeah good call on him being overrated, i wouldnt want him on my team.

There's a quantifiable solution to this issue and it's called win shares. Pujols has more win shares than anyone. By your definition of MVP, he's been the most valuable. And the Cards did pretty damn good considering that everyone wrote them off in March. They were expected to fight with the Pirates for 6th in the NL Central, but instead they were in the playoff hunt for most of the season.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby bigken117 » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:00 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:Howard might not have a good overall AVG but look what hes done in September helping the Phillies get into the playoffs- .349 AVG/ 11 HR/ 32 RBI/ ..yeah good call on him being overrated, i wouldnt want him on my team.


So the first 4 months of the season don't count?
It's MVP for the season, not Player of the Month for September.

Howard and Delgado are both the 3rd most valuable players in their infield.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby Neato Torpedo » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:12 pm

bigken117 wrote:
SpecialFNK wrote:Howard might not have a good overall AVG but look what hes done in September helping the Phillies get into the playoffs- .349 AVG/ 11 HR/ 32 RBI/ ..yeah good call on him being overrated, i wouldnt want him on my team.


So the first 4 months of the season don't count?
It's MVP for the season, not Player of the Month for September.

Howard and Delgado are both the 3rd most valuable players in their infield.

Ehh...I'd still say Howard is more valuable than Rollins. 81 walks makes up enough for his crappy average to allow the 48/146 to really stand out.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby DK » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:22 pm

Screw it.
Johan for Cy.

Has Lincecum been better? Probably.
But let me be a homer for chrissakes.

(Plus it's defensible.)
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby SpecialFNK » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:34 pm

voting for the MVP is done by human voting. i doubt when they vote they look up what win shares players have. i also doubt they look up OPS+ or any other deep type stat that isnt easily found. there are 2 big stats that jump out to voters, and thats HR and RBI. not including todays game Howard has 48 HR and 146 RBI.
its also looked at what players do in key situations, such as helping their teams in playoff races. Howard has been huge in September for Philadelphia.
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Re: Is anyone else sick of hearing.....

Postby Neato Torpedo » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:45 pm

DK wrote:Screw it.
Johan for Cy.

Has Lincecum been better? Probably.
But let me be a homer for chrissakes.

(Plus it's defensible.)


....



.......





.....Fukudome for MVP? O:-)

SpecialFNK wrote:voting for the MVP is done by human voting. i doubt when they vote they look up what win shares players have. i also doubt they look up OPS+ or any other deep type stat that isnt easily found. there are 2 big stats that jump out to voters, and thats HR and RBI. not including todays game Howard has 48 HR and 146 RBI.
its also looked at what players do in key situations, such as helping their teams in playoff races. Howard has been huge in September for Philadelphia.

They should just put up a poll here at the Cafe for the official award. A nice discussion about VORP and win shares is what everyone needs.
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