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What, if any, 2009 moves do NYY need to make?

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Re: What, if any, 2009 moves do NYY need to make?

Postby mweir145 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:05 pm

Tavish wrote:They should put all the teams in one division and then let the top 2 play for the title. That probably wouldn't be fair for the team who finishes first but you cant please everyone.

That would be way better than current system.
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Re: What, if any, 2009 moves do NYY need to make?

Postby mweir145 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:09 pm

noseeum wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
It's not that Hank has untrue or invalid points. I will allow that teams with better records routinely miss the postseason while leaders of weaker divisions gain entry. I will also say I believe it is tougher to win a competitive division than to get "hot" for a three-week playoff run

However, it's that the timing of Hank's rant — during the same week the Yankees miss the playoffs for the first time since '93 eliciting few tears from the rest of the universe — that makes for perhaps the sourest grapes we've tasted in some time.


This is case and point.

He's not making a poor argument per se, but he's only making it because the Yankees were victims of it this year. The Yankees have screwed plenty of other teams, namely the Blue Jays, out of playoff births for years. If Hank made this statement in April rather than the day after the Yankees are eliminated from the playoffs, maybe I'd give a little more respect to the argument. But to do this now just shows a lack of class.


I agree in general the guy should shut his trap, but I don't really agree with what you're saying here. Both the Yankees and the Sox have said in past years that it's a tough division to compete in. Even if the Yankees win it, they had to make their decisions based on trying to beat the Sox, Jays, Ray, and Orioles whereas the Angels had to make their decisions based on trying to beat the A's, Rangers, and Mariners. That's really unbalanced, even if you win.

But still, it goes both ways. Yanks and Sox rake in the dough because the stakes are so high every year and their fans are so interested. Even Angels fans know the Mariners and A's stink so they can't pretend to get jazzed about the matchups. I'd rather lose in the East on occasion than be a fan of a team in the West. No offense to you Angels fans. I mean more based on regular season. It's a more entertaining regular season than when you have it all wrapped up early.


Haha, no way. Losing continually in the East absolutely sucks when you know your team would probably compete and win in any other division in baseball. I'd much rather have the Jays be in the Central or West for that reason. Do you really think this October I'm going to be looking back and remembering the 36 games Toronto had with Boston and New York fondly for their entertainment value? Or will I just be pissed that the Jays aren't there for the 15th straight year? Probably the latter.
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Re: What, if any, 2009 moves do NYY need to make?

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:21 pm

mweir145 wrote:
Tavish wrote:They should put all the teams in one division and then let the top 2 play for the title. That probably wouldn't be fair for the team who finishes first but you cant please everyone.

That would be way better than current system.


It's probably fairer but it does nothing to help the sport. With 6 divisions and 2 wildcards, a lot of teams remain in the hunt for a long time. Consolidating everything to one division with only the top 2 playing for the championship completely eliminates that and will likely drive a lot of fans away.
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Re: What, if any, 2009 moves do NYY need to make?

Postby Yoda » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:50 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Tavish wrote:They should put all the teams in one division and then let the top 2 play for the title. That probably wouldn't be fair for the team who finishes first but you cant please everyone.

That would be way better than current system.


It's probably fairer but it does nothing to help the sport. With 6 divisions and 2 wildcards, a lot of teams remain in the hunt for a long time. Consolidating everything to one division with only the top 2 playing for the championship completely eliminates that and will likely drive a lot of fans away.


Exactly. The wild card was formed to give more teams a chance to make the playoffs. Contention = money. No way they will consolidate. If anything, they should expand the playoff system and do tournament. That would be awesome.
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Re: What, if any, 2009 moves do NYY need to make?

Postby sblinyy » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:59 pm

Yoda wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:That would be way better than current system.


It's probably fairer but it does nothing to help the sport. With 6 divisions and 2 wildcards, a lot of teams remain in the hunt for a long time. Consolidating everything to one division with only the top 2 playing for the championship completely eliminates that and will likely drive a lot of fans away.


Exactly. The wild card was formed to give more teams a chance to make the playoffs. Contention = money. No way they will consolidate. If anything, they should expand the playoff system and do tournament. That would be awesome.


By tournament do you mean 1 game series? If so, that would be absolutely awful. Wouldn't that piss you off if your team won 100 games in the regular season then the opposing pitcher pitches the game of his life and your teams ace gets lit up. Season over just like that. I personally don't see a problem with the current playoff system.
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Re: What, if any, 2009 moves do NYY need to make?

Postby Yoda » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:07 pm

No like double or triple elimination.
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Re: What, if any, 2009 moves do NYY need to make?

Postby Big Pimpin » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:07 pm

Contraction! :-B
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Re: What, if any, 2009 moves do NYY need to make?

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:10 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Tavish wrote:They should put all the teams in one division and then let the top 2 play for the title. That probably wouldn't be fair for the team who finishes first but you cant please everyone.

That would be way better than current system.


It's probably fairer but it does nothing to help the sport. With 6 divisions and 2 wildcards, a lot of teams remain in the hunt for a long time. Consolidating everything to one division with only the top 2 playing for the championship completely eliminates that and will likely drive a lot of fans away.


Thinking about this even more, I'm not sure why you would support a system like that. As a Blue Jays fan, you'd have even less of a chance to compete with this system. Your main gripe right now is that you aren't equipped to beat the Yankees and Red Sox every year. A one-system division doesn't eliminate that problem, it only furthers it. If you can't beat those teams as it is, how do you expect to beat them in this system, when you'll also have to be competing with every other team in baseball?

This system actually benefits teams like the Yankees, who perennially win 95-100 games in the regular season, but get beat early on in the playoffs. In this system, the Yankees would be in the World Series A LOT more, and thus would probably have many more championships.

If any system is going to favor teams like the Jays, it's going to be what Yoda suggested...expansion of the playoffs. Then they have a better chance at getting in. Their relationship to New York and Boston becomes less of a factor if there are more wildcard spots, and the job for NY and Bos to fight through to actually get to the World Series becomes tougher than it already is.

-OR-

You take Tavish's idea of the one-division, except you take best EIGHT teams and put them in the playoffs. So there will still be the same amount of playoff spots, but the teams with the best records will make it and teams like the Yankees this year or the Jays in past years will still have a shot even if they are the 3rd best team in their division.
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Re: What, if any, 2009 moves do NYY need to make?

Postby mweir145 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:15 pm

My main motivation is to get a fairer system, not one that is better for the Blue Jays. Make it a balanced schedule, and I'll be happy. Until then, the top 4 teams in the AL East are going to keep beating up on each other, and two of them (if not 3) aren't going to make it because of that. In a 2 team format with a balanced schedule, the best teams would make it, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

As for the other idea, the President of the Blue Jays has been trying to get an expansion of the playoffs for years.
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Re: What, if any, 2009 moves do NYY need to make?

Postby mweir145 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:20 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:Your main gripe right now is that you aren't equipped to beat the Yankees and Red Sox every year.

That's really an entirely different issue that has to do with payroll (and it's the Jays own fault that they aren't willing to spend as much as those teams when they obviously could). I, of course, do think that a salary cap would be beneficial to the overall competitive balance of the league, however.
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