What, if any, 2009 moves do NYY need to make?

[Yoda]

Makes sense.

Still, does saying Cliff Lee only winning 8 games by himself seem flawed? Or any other pitcher for that matter.

[noseeum]

Makes sense.

Still, does saying Cliff Lee only winning 8 games by himself seem flawed? Or any other pitcher for that matter.

Not at all in my view. Just think what 8 wins does for you. It takes away 8 losses too. It takes you from 81-81 to 89-73. That's huge. If one guy does that for your team, buy him a medal.

[Yoda]

Back on topic, only Mussina and Pettite started 30+ games. With only 2/5 of the rotation intact are 7 extra wins out of Wang, Joba and Hughes too much to expect over Ponson, Rasner, Pavano, Kennedy?

[noseeum]

Back on topic, only Mussina and Pettite started 30+ games. With only 2/5 of the rotation intact are 7 extra wins out of Wang, Joba and Hughes too much to expect over Ponson, Rasner, Pavano, Kennedy?

I think in half a season it might be a bit much but it's close. Hughes and Joba were never really going more than 5/6 innings per game no matter how well they pitched. That makes it tough to win every game even if they pitch well. It comes down to the bullpen then. And that's really what the other four did too. Wang, otoh, if he's on he can pitch a lot of innings. He might have accounted for 3 or 4 on his own, so the others only need to combine for 3 or 4.

Still, I'm not going to blame the starting pitching for this year. The staff as a whole was significantly better than league average even with the injuries. What else can you really hope for?

As for next year, they should tell Jeter to learn center field in the off season or find a way to tear his ACL. His bat is now only useful at SS, 2B, or CF. Since he can't play SS anymore, he better start practicing. I know this won't happen, but it should.

For pitching, just keep doing what you're doing, Cashman. Get as many live arms as you can get in the minors and start letting them come through. Grab CC.

For offense, it's a complete and total mess. I don't see an immediate way out until 2009. These old timers have to be shipped off but their real good prospects are not really far enough along yet. Nady was a good pickup. I think this offseason a trade for some good young offensive talent would be in order.

[markj11]

Back on topic, only Mussina and Pettite started 30+ games. With only 2/5 of the rotation intact are 7 extra wins out of Wang, Joba and Hughes too much to expect over Ponson, Rasner, Pavano, Kennedy?

I'm sure you are aware that 7 wins do not equal 7 points in the standings. I think the Yankees need a new stadium.

[bigwords]

Also, as much as the injury to Wang hurt and the seasons from Hughes and Kennedy were disappointing, I don't think anybody expected this amazing season from Mike Mussina.

In an alternative universe where everything goes as planned, Wang gives another 100-120 innings and Joba gives another 50-75. On the other hand, Mussina gives an inferior 200 innings to the ones he's given this season.

So I agree that you can't pin the troubles squarely on underachieving pitching because here's at least one major example where the pitching exceeded expectations.

The last point I'd make is that having a good defense improves the perception of how the pitching is doing.

Take Andy Pettite for example. Among pitchers with at least 100 innings pitched, he has the seventh highest batting average against for balls hit in play. (A .341 BABIP.) He has a 4.54 ERA on this season, but his peripherals (strikeout rate, walk rate, home runs allowed rate, strand rate, etc.) suggest that a 4.07 ERA would be more in line with what he's done, based on historical averages.

Mussina has the 14th highest BABIP among pitchers with 100 innings pitched. Rasner has the 21st highest BABIP.

Also, it might be illustrative to point out that the Tampa Rays have the best defensive efficiency in the majors this year. The Chicago Cubs are #2. The Red Sox, Brewers, Mets, Phillies, Astros, Angels are all in the top 10. (The A's and Blue Jays too.) Any coincidence that many of these teams are going to the playoffs?

[BronXBombers51]

For offense, it's a complete and total mess. I don't see an immediate way out until 2009. These old timers have to be shipped off but their real good prospects are not really far enough along yet. Nady was a good pickup. I think this offseason a trade for some good young offensive talent would be in order.

But who?

[jfg]

Oh, ok bigwords. I didn't get the X3 thing. Now that I look at my post it does seem ludicrous that one player could add 20+ wins to a team.

[BronXBombers51]

Apparently the Cano rumors are more prevalent than I thought, but I still see no mention of who they might ship him for, outside of Matt Kemp. Who else is out there? Someone mentioned Holliday earlier. I don't see Colorado doing that, and I also feel that taking Holliday out of Colorado does diminish his value.

They reportedly have their eye on Orlando Hudson for 2B. I liked the idea of him at first, but upon further inspection, his defense has seemed to really drop over the past 2 years. Mark Ellis is probably the best defensive option, but he is inferior to Hudson at the plate.

[Yoda]

Hudson is always hurt. So is Ellis. They should be patient with Cano.