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Pickens Plan; Getting Us Off Foreign Oil

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Re: Pickens Plan; Getting Us Off Foreign Oil

Postby bleach168 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:00 pm

Madison wrote:
bleach168 wrote:The cost of the war was originally predicted to be $50-60 billion. Iraq currently exports about 1.5 million barrels of oil a day. Experts believe that's only half of their potential.

3.0 million barrels a day at $30 a barrel adds up to $32 billion a year.
3.0 million barrels a day at $90 a barrel adds up to $96 billion a year.

So, at the onset of the war, it made perfect sense that it was for oil.

But once reality set it, and it seemed the benefits weren't going to outweigh the costs, I think it became political.


What were we going to do? Overthrow them and make them a new state? :-B

This wasn't about oil. :-b


Bilateral oil trade agreements.

If it makes you feel better, I had a professor who totally disagreed with me on this too. lol
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Re: Pickens Plan; Getting Us Off Foreign Oil

Postby Madison » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:18 pm

bleach168 wrote:Bilateral oil trade agreements.

If it makes you feel better, I had a professor who totally disagreed with me on this too. lol


Nah, it never really affects me if people agree or not. I personally believe it's silly to think this whole deal in Iraq was for oil, the logic behind that assumption just makes no sense. If someone agrees with that, cool. If not, that's cool as well. ;-D
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Re: Pickens Plan; Getting Us Off Foreign Oil

Postby AussieDodger » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:21 pm

Madison wrote:
bleach168 wrote:Bilateral oil trade agreements.

If it makes you feel better, I had a professor who totally disagreed with me on this too. lol


Nah, it never really affects me if people agree or not. I personally believe it's silly to think this whole deal in Iraq was for oil, the logic behind that assumption just makes no sense. If someone agrees with that, cool. If not, that's cool as well. ;-D


It's what the rest of the world thinks. :-D

Apparently the American flag has changed to a picture of Uncle Sam driving the stars and stripes into a barrel of oil.
(If anyone wants to draw that that would be sweet :-) )
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Re: Pickens Plan; Getting Us Off Foreign Oil

Postby JTWood » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:58 pm

If oil really is the next strategic commodity, then a war for oil is a war for national security.

As much as I don't like it, it's the history of nations to fight wars like that.
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Re: Pickens Plan; Getting Us Off Foreign Oil

Postby Madison » Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:29 am

AussieDodger wrote:It's what the rest of the world thinks. :-D


I thought the rest of the world thought we are a bunch of crazy cowboys with the craziest one of the bunch as president? :-b
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Re: Pickens Plan; Getting Us Off Foreign Oil

Postby RugbyD » Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:57 am

getting this back on track, the concept of energy independence is one of, if not THE worst economic and geopolitical ideas ever. Discuss.
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Re: Pickens Plan; Getting Us Off Foreign Oil

Postby bleach168 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:44 am

RugbyD wrote:getting this back on track, the concept of energy independence is one of, if not THE worst economic and geopolitical ideas ever. Discuss.


I know where you're going with this. And I know you feel the free markets will solve the problem.

But when Peak Oil hits, everything is just going to stop and we will literally be living in the stone age. The transition to a new fuel source may take over 20 years according to the Hirsch report. Eventually, we're going to have to make the switch. It's just a question of whether it is going to be gradual or abrupt.

The solution for a gradual transition couldn't be simpler. Just raise taxes on oil and gasoline and keep raising them over time to make sure the price continues to go up. Then allow the free market to come up with whatever alternative is deemed best.
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Re: Pickens Plan; Getting Us Off Foreign Oil

Postby RugbyD » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:17 am

bleach168 wrote:
RugbyD wrote:getting this back on track, the concept of energy independence is one of, if not THE worst economic and geopolitical ideas ever. Discuss.


I know where you're going with this. And I know you feel the free markets will solve the problem.

But when Peak Oil hits, everything is just going to stop and we will literally be living in the stone age. The transition to a new fuel source may take over 20 years according to the Hirsch report. Eventually, we're going to have to make the switch. It's just a question of whether it is going to be gradual or abrupt.

The solution for a gradual transition couldn't be simpler. Just raise taxes on oil and gasoline and keep raising them over time to make sure the price continues to go up. Then allow the free market to come up with whatever alternative is deemed best.

i'm not sure you're thinking along the same line as me re: energy independence. provide more detail if you don't mind.

the free market works best when it is distorted the least. raising taxes is distortive, especially when it is done in punitive, behavior-influencing or social engineering fashion.

I find the notion that everything will just grind to a halt pretty ridiculous and alarmist. Oil is a finite resource, but between new dicsoveries, varying well lives, and better extraction technology for traditional and non-traditional methods, I have no doubt that the transition to different energy sources will not be majorly disruptive.
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Re: Pickens Plan; Getting Us Off Foreign Oil

Postby Dan Lambskin » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:49 am

AussieDodger wrote:Is there anyone with a letter for a first name that is actually honest?


T. Azimuth Schwitters...the leader of a self-help company/religion/lifestyle known as Eventualism
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Re: Pickens Plan; Getting Us Off Foreign Oil

Postby Art Vandelay » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:03 am

JTWood wrote:If oil really is the next strategic commodity, then a war for oil is a war for national security.

As much as I don't like it, it's the history of nations to fight wars like that.

Oil seems more like the current strategic commodity. Water is probably the next one.
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