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What's the "true" Triple Crown?

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Re: What's the "true" Triple Crown?

Postby great gretzky » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:10 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:But why average, HR, and RBI? Why would anyone think to pursue the Triple Crown? Why even create such a concept if not to measure single-season dominance?


Because like it or lump it, those are the three premier offensive baseball stats for what, the past 100 years? It's a "concept" in nomenclature only. You need to be careful of how you are defining terms. The "Triple Crown" is the label of the award of a player who is the league leader of those three statistical categories. So the "true" Triple Crown is what it is.

And without starting a big brouhaha, the fact is win shares, vorp and all of that aren't accepted on the same level as the traditional stats, and its unlikely they will be. OBP and OPS seems like they will catch on, but those others? Probably not. So long story short, those are the stats that were lionized and sought after. But they didn't "create the concept" and award it, the powers that be labeled a phenomenon and rewarded it. It's subtle, but it's distinct. And you have to be dominant to win it, but "dominance" isn't the defined hallmark of the award, nor is it part of the definition. But considering the rarity of the event even happening, it's just fine as it is.

I mean its kind of like saying why did they decide on the Kentucky Derby, Preakness, and Belmont as the "Triple Crown" -- I mean do those three races define a horse? Well, it was decided, and that's how it is.
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Re: What's the "true" Triple Crown?

Postby mclusky » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:37 pm

Even if you don't think BA/HR/RBI are the three ideal categories to measure hitter by, you'd have a hard time showing that anyone who won a Triple Crown wasn't the dominant hitter in the league that year.
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Re: What's the "true" Triple Crown?

Postby Neato Torpedo » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:48 pm

I made this thread mostly to address wins being part of the pitching Triple Crown...
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Re: What's the "true" Triple Crown?

Postby mweir145 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:49 pm

great gretzky wrote:So the "true" Triple Crown is what it is.

Good post, that's all that needed to be said.
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Re: What's the "true" Triple Crown?

Postby mweir145 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:52 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:I made this thread mostly to address wins being part of the pitching Triple Crown...

Did you read great gretzky's post? The same thing applies for the pitching stats.

Nobody is saying that the Triple Crown stats are the most important stats for evaluating players, but they are still the Triple Crown stats.
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Re: What's the "true" Triple Crown?

Postby Dan Lambskin » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:56 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:
acsguitar wrote:This post makes me want to commit mass murder

Did I make some sort of faux pas here?


what does this have to do with ACS's mom's groin area
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Re: What's the "true" Triple Crown?

Postby acsguitar » Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:31 pm

Dan Lambskin wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:
acsguitar wrote:This post makes me want to commit mass murder

Did I make some sort of faux pas here?


what does this have to do with ACS's mom's groin area



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Re: What's the "true" Triple Crown?

Postby mission27 » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:47 pm

Hitting:
OBP
SLG
wOBA

Pitching
K/BB
K/9
tRA
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Re: What's the "true" Triple Crown?

Postby Snakes Gould » Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:44 pm

the only thing i never really liked about the triple crown was rbi being included. it seems like a given if someone knocks 55 hr, they're going to have a ton of rbi. sure there are guys who lead the league in homers and not rbi, but it always felt redundant to me. avg means good contact, hr means good power, but what exactly does rbi mean? i wouldnt want it changed in any stretch of the imagination because its been a part of the game for 100 years.

would be kinda cool if rbi was replaced by sb though eh? could you imagine a guy leading the league in home runs and stolen bases? now that'd be somethin'!
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Re: What's the "true" Triple Crown?

Postby mission27 » Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:21 pm

Snakes Gould wrote:the only thing i never really liked about the triple crown was rbi being included. it seems like a given if someone knocks 55 hr, they're going to have a ton of rbi. sure there are guys who lead the league in homers and not rbi, but it always felt redundant to me. avg means good contact, hr means good power, but what exactly does rbi mean? i wouldnt want it changed in any stretch of the imagination because its been a part of the game for 100 years.

would be kinda cool if rbi was replaced by sb though eh? could you imagine a guy leading the league in home runs and stolen bases? now that'd be somethin'!


RBI is also very team dependent and a terrible measure of player performance. To a certain extent I can live with people looking at BA (Though OBP would be better) and HRs (though SLG would be better) but look at RBI's is just dumb.
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