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'09 Keeper League Rankings - Input wanted

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Re: '09 Keeper League Rankings - Input wanted

Postby The Artful Dodger » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:23 pm

ILoveBush wrote:I think James Loney has to be in the top 100. Conor Jackson would be close as well.


Personally, I frown upon 1B's whose power potential tops out in the 20-25 HR range and neither would be in my top 100 today or this coming March. Loney, in particular, has been a mild disappointment but not surprising either although I think his plate discipline is a step back from where it was in previous years (he's been in the habit of pressing).
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Re: '09 Keeper League Rankings - Input wanted

Postby ILoveBush » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:23 pm

The Artful Dodger wrote:
ILoveBush wrote:I think James Loney has to be in the top 100. Conor Jackson would be close as well.


Personally, I frown upon 1B's whose power potential tops out in the 20-25 HR range and neither would be in my top 100 today or this coming March. Loney, in particular, has been a mild disappointment but not surprising either although I think his plate discipline is a step back from where it was in previous years (he's been in the habit of pressing).



No reason why Loney can't develop 25+ homer power. I'd rather keep him than Young, Jeter, Bradley, Peralta, and a handful of others. There are not 100 MLB players who should be kept over Loney.
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Re: '09 Keeper League Rankings - Input wanted

Postby rookies and cream » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:52 pm

Yoda wrote:
ILoveBush wrote:If Morrow comes up and pitches well, is he really any different than Joba?


They are different as Joba is much more advanced than Morrow.


And that's coming from the author of the "Morrow=Joba" thread. I agree with Yoda though. Joba is a bit more advanced than Morrow.
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Re: '09 Keeper League Rankings - Input wanted

Postby The Artful Dodger » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:14 pm

ILoveBush wrote:
The Artful Dodger wrote:
ILoveBush wrote:I think James Loney has to be in the top 100. Conor Jackson would be close as well.


Personally, I frown upon 1B's whose power potential tops out in the 20-25 HR range and neither would be in my top 100 today or this coming March. Loney, in particular, has been a mild disappointment but not surprising either although I think his plate discipline is a step back from where it was in previous years (he's been in the habit of pressing).



No reason why Loney can't develop 25+ homer power. I'd rather keep him than Young, Jeter, Bradley, Peralta, and a handful of others. There are not 100 MLB players who should be kept over Loney.


Thing is, Loney hasn't illustrated that he can exceed 25 homerun power and there are some who believe he won't exceed 20. So far, the power binge he enjoyed late last year doesn't seem to be indicative of a trend as his FB rate has just about normalized. Loney is a better for-contact hitter than anything, I'd say.

I see what you're saying but while Loney has youth on his side, I don't think his upside is special enough to make him a top 100 hitter (this coming from a Dodger fan who thought he could hit 20 HR this year).
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Re: '09 Keeper League Rankings - Input wanted

Postby ILoveBush » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:07 pm

The Artful Dodger wrote:
ILoveBush wrote:
The Artful Dodger wrote:
Personally, I frown upon 1B's whose power potential tops out in the 20-25 HR range and neither would be in my top 100 today or this coming March. Loney, in particular, has been a mild disappointment but not surprising either although I think his plate discipline is a step back from where it was in previous years (he's been in the habit of pressing).



No reason why Loney can't develop 25+ homer power. I'd rather keep him than Young, Jeter, Bradley, Peralta, and a handful of others. There are not 100 MLB players who should be kept over Loney.


Thing is, Loney hasn't illustrated that he can exceed 25 homerun power and there are some who believe he won't exceed 20. So far, the power binge he enjoyed late last year doesn't seem to be indicative of a trend as his FB rate has just about normalized. Loney is a better for-contact hitter than anything, I'd say.

I see what you're saying but while Loney has youth on his side, I don't think his upside is special enough to make him a top 100 hitter (this coming from a Dodger fan who thought he could hit 20 HR this year).


We will have to respectfully disagree on the power. Even if you think he will only hit 15-20 homeruns a year, do you, as a dodger fan, think there are 100 players worth keeping over him?

I don't.
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Re: '09 Keeper League Rankings - Input wanted

Postby Yoda » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:31 pm

ILoveBush wrote:We will have to respectfully disagree on the power. Even if you think he will only hit 15-20 homeruns a year, do you, as a dodger fan, think there are 100 players worth keeping over him?

I don't.


You are entitled to your opinion.

1B is plentiful and Loney has never come close to hitting 20 HR in a season except with the Dodgers when he was called up in 07 when he smacked 15. I wouldn't waste a top 100 pick on a 1B with no power and no speed.
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Re: '09 Keeper League Rankings - Input wanted

Postby The Artful Dodger » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:51 pm

ILoveBush wrote:
The Artful Dodger wrote:
ILoveBush wrote:No reason why Loney can't develop 25+ homer power. I'd rather keep him than Young, Jeter, Bradley, Peralta, and a handful of others. There are not 100 MLB players who should be kept over Loney.


Thing is, Loney hasn't illustrated that he can exceed 25 homerun power and there are some who believe he won't exceed 20. So far, the power binge he enjoyed late last year doesn't seem to be indicative of a trend as his FB rate has just about normalized. Loney is a better for-contact hitter than anything, I'd say.

I see what you're saying but while Loney has youth on his side, I don't think his upside is special enough to make him a top 100 hitter (this coming from a Dodger fan who thought he could hit 20 HR this year).


We will have to respectfully disagree on the power. Even if you think he will only hit 15-20 homeruns a year, do you, as a dodger fan, think there are 100 players worth keeping over him?

I don't.


Juan Pierre. ;-)

OK, think of it this way: when drafting a 1B or 3B, I think the primary aim should be in drafting a hitter that can be capable of posting 30 HR's at the least. You never expect your bastions of power to come from your MI or C, but the power tends to be most concentrated at the corners. There's forgiveness for having an OF of Loney's credentials and upside but there really isn't any for a deep 1B position where the power should be coming from.

And yes, I do believe there are 100 players I'd keep over Loney, probably even 150. Basically anyone on the OP's top 100 list and "just missed" list, I'd take over Loney.
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Re: '09 Keeper League Rankings - Input wanted

Postby B-Chad » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:52 pm

I would have Ryan Howard ranked much lower on my list, even assuming this is a 5x5 league and his K's and poor OPS don't hurt you. If the stats counted are deeper, I'd move him even further down. I don't understand all the love Ryan Howard receives in fantasy circles. For starters, Ryan Howard has 2 career SB's. It is safe to say he will contribute nothing to your SB category, and though there are plenty of upper echelon hitters who contribute little to nothing to SB's, they usually are .300 ish hitters. Ryan Howard on the other hand is hitting .227 on the season, and hit .268 last year.

His K:BB disparity has increased over the last two years, especially this season, and stands at a deplorable 172:64. His HR totals are also on a decline. In 2006 he homered in 10.2% of his AB's. In 2007 he homered in 9% of his AB's. In 2008 he's homered in 7% of his AB's. That means his greatest asset is actually declining, even if his 34 HR's coming into the night (35 after tonight) are tied for 2nd in MLB. His 74 runs scored on the season coming into tonight have him tied for 52nd place on the runs scored list. Yes, his RBI's this season are fantastic ranking him 2nd in all of MLB, but are a very luck driven statistic. I certainly would not want to own a player in the top 50 even that is going to kill my batting average, not contribute in stolen bases, be a fringe top 50 runs scored player even if it comes with his power numbers. If his HR totals continue to decrease, and he comes up with fewer runners in scoring position next year, he could put up a serious stinker of a season. I would take at the very least 50 players to Ryan Howard.
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Re: '09 Keeper League Rankings - Input wanted

Postby mweir145 » Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:38 am

James Loney in the top 100? Why don't we throw Lyle Overbay and Casey Kotchman in there while we're at it? :-b
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Re: '09 Keeper League Rankings - Input wanted

Postby ILoveBush » Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:33 pm

mweir145 wrote:James Loney in the top 100? Why don't we throw Lyle Overbay and Casey Kotchman in there while we're at it? :-b



Not any more ridiculous that having soon to be 35 year old Jeter with declining power and declining speed. I'd rather have the young guy who still has upside. Loney will have a much better career that Overbay or Kotchman.
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