Rich Harden

[AllDay]

Harden might still be a good value next year if the haters continue to hate. Some people have sworn to never own him again. If they keep their word (unlikely) then he might be a steal once again.

Haters? I don't think anyone hates him, just not willing to use a high pick for a guy that has such a long history of injuries.

The only way he's a steal, next year, is if he stays healthy most of the year and no one can predict that.

I don't know if I have a weakness for them, but I am not scared away by 'injury prone' labels in the middle or late rounds when a guy has huge upside. I've had good luck targeting those types of pitchers later in the draft.

You must have loved Prior.

For every Prior there is also a Beckett. I didnt usually own them the years they are drafted highly. In later rounds I think they look intriguing.

Bedard might be a guy I draft next year if he falls to that range. He still has talent and nice upside. I'm not just gonna say 'injury prone' or 'he burned owners last year' and ignore him completely - whatever the outcome of his season is. I didn't have Bedard this year because I thought it was crazy to take him the 3rd - 4th round to begin with.

I didn't have Harden last year because I didn't think he was worth a 3rd or a 4th. I won't have him next year if he's taken in the first 6 rounds probably.

The pitchers I do draft next year will come almost exclusively after the first 8 rounds. It's no given Harden gets selected before then. His stock could plummet with a few bad outings or injury.

I think I did draft Prior when people started to shun him - but I drafted Beckett his CY Young season after people started to shun him, Harden this year after people started to shun him, Magglio when he started to come back to fantasy dominance after a horrible shunning incident. Many more stories of success than Prior stories.

[sportsguy138]

Bedard might be a guy I draft next year if he falls to that range.

If Bedard falls to that range? He won't get drafted as late as Harden did last year. Harden's history of injuries is longer than Bedard's, so don't put them in the same boat.

He still has talent and nice upside.

I think that's pretty obvious.

I'm not just gonna say 'injury prone' or 'he burned owners last year' and ignore him completely - whatever the outcome of his season is.

To ignore him completely doesn't make sense. Some people did that last year, but if he falls far enough it's worth to take a shot at a guy that provides that kind of upside (Harden). But yet again, the comparison isn't the same.

I think I did draft Prior when people started to shun him - but I drafted Beckett his CY Young season after people started to shun him, Harden this year after people started to shun him, Magglio when he started to come back to fantasy dominance after a horrible shunning incident. Many more stories of success than Prior stories.

You're probably just a really good fantasy player.

[J35J]

I remember when everyone was bashing me for taking Harden over Verlander in a trade...looks pretty smart now!!! haha

How does it make you look smart? Injuries are very, very unpredictable, but certain players are far more prone to injuries than others. I mean, it's great that the trade has worked out for you, but that's ignoring many signs of probability and the fact that you won out wasn't because you had some secret knowledge of Harden that no one else had, but was 99% attributable to luck

That's like saying you ran across the plains with a metal rod attached to your head in a thunderstorm, and just because you weren't struck by lightning despite us telling you to do otherwise, claiming that it was a smart move.

[AllDay]

Bedard might be a guy I draft next year if he falls to that range.

If Bedard falls to that range? He won't get drafted as late as Harden did last year. Harden's history of injuries is longer than Bedard's, so don't put them in the same boat.

I will put them in the same boat. Both are guys I would never have drafted at their peak values. Both are guys I would draft if they fell to a certain point.

He still has talent and nice upside.

I think that's pretty obvious.

I thought that was obvious with Harden - others claim there is no room on their roster even after 20 some rounds.

I'm not just gonna say 'injury prone' or 'he burned owners last year' and ignore him completely - whatever the outcome of his season is.

To ignore him completely doesn't make sense. Some people did that last year, but if he falls far enough it's worth to take a shot at a guy that provides that kind of upside (Harden). But yet again, the comparison isn't the same.

The comparison is exactly the same. A player drafted too high one year who falls the next. It doesn't have to be a guy falling from round 3 to round 16. He can fall from round 3 to round 9 and I might still target him if I think he is being undervalued.

I think I did draft Prior when people started to shun him - but I drafted Beckett his CY Young season after people started to shun him, Harden this year after people started to shun him, Magglio when he started to come back to fantasy dominance after a horrible shunning incident. Many more stories of success than Prior stories.

You're probably just a really good fantasy player.

I think that's pretty obvious.

[sportsguy138]

I will put them in the same boat. Both are guys I would never have drafted at their peak values. Both are guys I would draft if they fell to a certain point.

I meant in the same boat as in their draft position. Bedard will go higher than Harden did last year.

The comparison is exactly the same. A player drafted too high one year who falls the next. It doesn't have to be a guy falling from round 3 to round 16. He can fall from round 3 to round 9 and I might still target him if I think he is being undervalued.

I meant comparison value wise, because that would matter how much you, "ignore them" in your draft.

[Inukchuk]

You're probably just a really good fantasy player.

I think that's pretty obvious.

I thought it was the sarcasm that was obvious...

[AllDay]

You're probably just a really good fantasy player.

I think that's pretty obvious.

I thought it was the sarcasm that was obvious...

Yes, it was.

He still has talent and nice upside.

I think that's pretty obvious.

[Mile High Ballers]

For what it's worth most gamblers live by the mantra " It's better to be lucky than good..." Clearly knowledge of the game (baseball in this case) weighs heavily on your choices and therfore luck. Peace!

I swore off Harden 2 years ago and plucked him off waivers early season, rolling the dice, and I'm shocked and giddy he's putting up big thus far...

[h2wm]

I think something that is forgotten about Harden is that he has never had any arm surgery. I'm buying what he is doing now, and I think he is on a mission to shred his "soft" image.

[bazzy_51]

ok i read the first 2 pages and didn't really hear ANYTHING good about him so im gonna post it...and no not just because hes a cubbie now, i just think this in general even if he was pitchin like this for the cards or brew crew or yanks or anyone...look at this year, the guy hasn't gone any more then 7 IP, and if im not mistaken (don't quote me cuz i couldn't find it anywhere off hand) but i don't think hes eclipsed 100 pitches in a game yet this year and if he has its only been by a couple...and since joining the cubs Lou has kept him under restrictions and i have a feeling how good hes been that won't be lifted any time soon...i mean ok yes i hate to see a kid with that much talent be that injury prone, but i really have to believe that the absolute worst of it is FAR behind him...i do know for sure he hasn't gone over 100 pitches in this last 11 starts those 7 other starts im not exactly sure but i mean i put all the faith in the world in him now cuz the cubs def. have a strongER 1-2-3 with Z-Harden-Dempster then they did when they started the year...im hoping at least haha!!