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Post Trade Deadline Rumor Extravaganza (Merged)

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Re: Post Trade Deadline Rumor Extravaganza (Merged)

Postby StlSluggers » Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:46 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:I'm certainly giving them the chance to prove that Bavasi was the weight holding them down. Since his departure, they have made more good decisions than the entire sum of all of Bavasi's moves. That may not hold true in the long run, but they are certainly behaving like a different management core; at least, what I'm seeing here.


What good decisions though? I don't see cutting Sexson and Vidro as good decisions.

Considering the precedent, I'm giving them notches in the plus column for those moves. :-)
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Re: Post Trade Deadline Rumor Extravaganza (Merged)

Postby Big Pimpin » Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:56 pm

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:The problem in Seattle is the ownership. They are interested in having a decent team, but don't want to do what it to takes to put together a good ballclub (by either dramatically rebuilding or spending). Letting go of Washburn gives off the aura that they are rebuilding to have a good team in 2-3 years, and therefore, fans may not come to the ballpark next year. THis is why they are trying to put together another decent ballclub for 2009, which Washburn is under contract for. Another team that does this is the Pirates....


I agree to an extent... Ownership is definitely a problem. They want to run the club like a business, with very firm budgets and such, and have basically refused to bend (see 2001 when Lou wanted another bat for the stretch run and they wouldn't get him one). I would say spending isn't an issue at all, their payroll is around $120M (I think it's $117M but whatever, they spend a crapload). They have basically decided that they're a big market team, and therefore scraping the whole thing and starting over isn't for them ("we will not do a Cleveland style rebuild"). This is compounded by front office guys who make bad decisions (trades, signings) that not only cripple the farm system but bloat the payroll. And for some reason they've decided that the best way to build a team is through free agency, which is probably the worst way to build a team.

I don't have a problem with them trying to remain somewhat competitive while they rebuild. I think they have some good pieces and a smart person can have them challenging for the playoffs pretty quickly. I have a problem with the thinking that Washburn is more valuable than Boof Bonser and $10M.

Also I would say the Pirates may have been guilty of this in the past, but not anymore. They've got smart people in charge finally. I'd much rather be a Pirates fan right now than a Mariners fan as much as that hurts to say... :,-(
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Re: Post Trade Deadline Rumor Extravaganza (Merged)

Postby kellythemick » Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:17 pm

I think the real indication for the future of the M's will occur in the next 2.5 months when they hopefully will hire a new GM. One who doesn't have ties to the old regime.
If it's obvious it's probably true.
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Re: Post Trade Deadline Rumor Extravaganza (Merged)

Postby Big Pimpin » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:07 pm

Larry Stone on the Seattle Times blog wrote:On the rumors that the Twins were offering Boof Bonser, Washburn said: "If that was the case, how much more do you think you're going to get? A young guy with a great arm who's cheap.'


Washburn for GM! :-B

Whether or not Bonser was really offered is unknown, but it doesn't even matter... :-b
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Re: Post Trade Deadline Rumor Extravaganza (Merged)

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:09 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:The problem in Seattle is the ownership. They are interested in having a decent team, but don't want to do what it to takes to put together a good ballclub (by either dramatically rebuilding or spending). Letting go of Washburn gives off the aura that they are rebuilding to have a good team in 2-3 years, and therefore, fans may not come to the ballpark next year. THis is why they are trying to put together another decent ballclub for 2009, which Washburn is under contract for. Another team that does this is the Pirates....


I agree to an extent... Ownership is definitely a problem. They want to run the club like a business, with very firm budgets and such, and have basically refused to bend (see 2001 when Lou wanted another bat for the stretch run and they wouldn't get him one). I would say spending isn't an issue at all, their payroll is around $120M (I think it's $117M but whatever, they spend a crapload). They have basically decided that they're a big market team, and therefore scraping the whole thing and starting over isn't for them ("we will not do a Cleveland style rebuild"). This is compounded by front office guys who make bad decisions (trades, signings) that not only cripple the farm system but bloat the payroll. And for some reason they've decided that the best way to build a team is through free agency, which is probably the worst way to build a team.

I don't have a problem with them trying to remain somewhat competitive while they rebuild. I think they have some good pieces and a smart person can have them challenging for the playoffs pretty quickly. I have a problem with the thinking that Washburn is more valuable than Boof Bonser and $10M.

Also I would say the Pirates may have been guilty of this in the past, but not anymore. They've got smart people in charge finally. I'd much rather be a Pirates fan right now than a Mariners fan as much as that hurts to say... :,-(


I'll buy some of that. Their payroll has just gotten huge in the last couple years. I'd say a lot of that (in fact, $30 million of their payroll) is Ichiro and Johjima, which are really "business" signings (they make a ton of money off the Japanese marketing these two provide). I'd also say that Washburn/Silva are "business" signings. A team ought to be able to see that these two guys are not going to actualy push any team over the top; they can keep a team competitive though and give a sense to the fans that the organization is "trying to win", regardless of whether the actual goal is victory or not (of course, one could easily argue that this is simply an instance of Seattle's front office being completely incompetent). I'd argue that they are trying to at least go .500 again in 2009, because that is the only reason they would actually keep Washburn, regardless of who is being offered. And I'd also say that Seattle is so far from competing (their farm system also sucks) that they really need to blow the whole thing up and do a "Cleveland-style" rebuild. However, this is tough from a business standpoint because they must keep fans interested. In addition, I'd say the "free-agency" style buliding is the quick, easy way to "show you are trying to compete" without really trying....

However, you could be right; their front office could simply be incompetent. They wouldn't be the first. I guess I just like to think that they have some idea at least as to what they are trying to do

Oh, and I did mean the old Pirates. The Pirates finally have started to show some idea of rebuliding
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Re: Post Trade Deadline Rumor Extravaganza (Merged)

Postby wake » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:37 pm

Mark Kotsay was a late scratch from tonight's lineup and the rumor is that he might be on the move. The Red Sox, Phillies, and Brewers were the main teams that had some interest in him.

Edit: ESPN News is reporting that it's to the Red Sox
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