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Ichiro reaches 3000 hits

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Re: Ichiro reaches 3000 hits

Postby SpecialFNK » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:18 am

you cant say he has 3000+ hits. they are from different places. different leagues.
you cant count what he did in Japan.
if you want to count what players do in Japan, then you should also count what players do in the minor leagues. atleast in the minors a player is facing comparible pitching, whereas im guessing the pitchers in Japan arnt major league calibre. you also have to factor the ballparks other there, arnt they alot smaller? and thats why you have certain players with alot of HR over there come to the major leagues and are totally different players. Kaz Matsui is an example. over in Japan, 2003- 33 HR. 2002- 36 HR, 2001- 24 HR ..yet in the real major leagues he hasnt hit more than 10. his season career high is 7.
so if anyone is going to consider Ichiro a hitter with 3000+ hits then i guess they also have to consider Kaz Matsui a power hitter.

to me Ichiro currently has 1723 hits, and thats what he should be judged on.
will he eventually get 3000 hits, i dont know ..but hes not there yet.
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Re: Ichiro reaches 3000 hits

Postby tolleyjenkins » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:26 am

SpecialFNK wrote: Kaz Matsui is an example. over in Japan, 2003- 33 HR. 2002- 36 HR, 2001- 24 HR ..yet in the real major leagues he hasnt hit more than 10. his season career high is 7.
so if anyone is going to consider Ichiro a hitter with 3000+ hits then i guess they also have to consider Kaz Matsui a power hitter.


This makes no sense.

A "power hitter" is a nebulous term capable of interpretation.

Stating that he has 3,000 hits is fact. You may take the stance that it's "not the same" as 3,000 hits in the MLB, but to say "YOU CAN'T EVEN SAY HE HAS 3,000 HITS" is insane.
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Re: Ichiro reaches 3000 hits

Postby SpecialFNK » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:50 am

ok lets use what your saying, and use a different player.
Derek Jeter.
how many hits does Jeter have?
according to thebaseballcube.com Jeter has 2469 hits ..from the major leagues. he also had 548 hits in the minor leagues. thats fact, he had those hits.. so should the 2 different leagues not be combined? therefor Jeter does not have 2469 hits, he actually has 3017 hits. so Jeter himself also has 3000+ hits, but i doubt anyone around baseball would credit Jeter with 3000+ hits.
if you want to combine major league stats with stats from Japan, you have to also count stats from the minor leagues.. or would the minor league numbers not count? because if the minor leagues dont count you can sure as hell say stats from Japan dont count either.
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Re: Ichiro reaches 3000 hits

Postby acsguitar » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:00 am

Its a nice thing for him and his fans who cares if its not really 3000 hits in MLB. Its 3000 career hits in 2 different leagues. Good for him. I don't think anyone is saying that this = the MLB version. But its still cool.
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Re: Ichiro reaches 3000 hits

Postby Matthias » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:07 am

SpecialFNK wrote:ok lets use what your saying, and use a different player.
Derek Jeter.
how many hits does Jeter have?
according to thebaseballcube.com Jeter has 2469 hits ..from the major leagues. he also had 548 hits in the minor leagues. thats fact, he had those hits.. so should the 2 different leagues not be combined? therefor Jeter does not have 2469 hits, he actually has 3017 hits. so Jeter himself also has 3000+ hits, but i doubt anyone around baseball would credit Jeter with 3000+ hits.
if you want to combine major league stats with stats from Japan, you have to also count stats from the minor leagues.. or would the minor league numbers not count? because if the minor leagues dont count you can sure as hell say stats from Japan dont count either.

Ummmm... you do know that Japan has a minor-league system where Ichiro has hits that don't go into the 1,278 number, right?
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Re: Ichiro reaches 3000 hits

Postby SpecialFNK » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:19 am

i did not know Japan has a minor league system, but it doesnt matter my point is still the same.. that you can not carry over hits from different leagues. sure its a good thing for Ichiro to count all the hits he has had from MLB and Japan, but for what its worth you might aswell add in hits from all baseball he has ever played from minor leagues, college, t-ball.. any level of baseball where they kept track of hits.
if Ichiro was to retire after this season when it came time to vote on him for the hall of fame he should only be judged on what he did in major league baseball, and not what he did while in Japan.
there are players in the past from the negro leagues that did not carry numbers over to MLB, otherwise Bonds would not have the career HR record that would go to i think his name was Josh Gibson with something like 800+
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Re: Ichiro reaches 3000 hits

Postby acsguitar » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:21 am

SpecialFNK wrote:i did not know Japan has a minor league system, but it doesnt matter my point is still the same.. that you can not carry over hits from different leagues. sure its a good thing for Ichiro to count all the hits he has had from MLB and Japan, but for what its worth you might aswell add in hits from all baseball he has ever played from minor leagues, college, t-ball.. any level of baseball where they kept track of hits.
if Ichiro was to retire after this season when it came time to vote on him for the hall of fame he should only be judged on what he did in major league baseball, and not what he did while in Japan.
there are players in the past from the negro leagues that did not carry numbers over to MLB, otherwise Bonds would not have the career HR record that would go to i think his name was Josh Gibson with something like 800+


Has anyone argued that this should count as 3000 mlb hits? or that we should count this towards HOF?
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Re: Ichiro reaches 3000 hits

Postby Snakes Gould » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:44 pm

this is getting pretty silly. no one is saying the 3000 are the same. you guys are just arguing wording.

but like i said before, hes easily going to get 3000 here in the majors so its no big deal. 200 hits for the next 6 seasons will be easy for him.
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Re: Ichiro reaches 3000 hits

Postby tolleyjenkins » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:46 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:i did not know Japan has a minor league system, but it doesnt matter my point is still the same.. that you can not carry over hits from different leagues. sure its a good thing for Ichiro to count all the hits he has had from MLB and Japan, but for what its worth you might aswell add in hits from all baseball he has ever played from minor leagues, college, t-ball.. any level of baseball where they kept track of hits.
if Ichiro was to retire after this season when it came time to vote on him for the hall of fame he should only be judged on what he did in major league baseball, and not what he did while in Japan.
there are players in the past from the negro leagues that did not carry numbers over to MLB, otherwise Bonds would not have the career HR record that would go to i think his name was Josh Gibson with something like 800+


No one has mentioned the HOF. And no one has suggested the hits in Japan count for purposes of MLB record keeping. All we've said he has "3000 hits," which is accurate. Stop watching so much Skip Bayless.
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Re: Ichiro reaches 3000 hits

Postby acsguitar » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:09 pm

Snakes Gould wrote:this is getting pretty silly. no one is saying the 3000 are the same. you guys are just arguing wording.

but like i said before, hes easily going to get 3000 here in the majors so its no big deal. 200 hits for the next 6 seasons will be easy for him.


Exactly then he'll get 5000k's after he becomes a pitcher at 40!

:)

Seriously though he'll get 3000 hits in the states but this is a very impressive and historic goal and although its not the same to us to the Japanese I'm sure its huge and to Ichiro its huge.

he's the only player EVER to have 3000 combined hits which is a cool stat.

BTW don't discount Japanese baseball too much the did win the WBC
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