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Is there any chance of this happening?

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Re: Is there any chance of this happening?

Postby The Handsome One » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:01 pm

mweir145 wrote:
RedSoxNation04 wrote:
Halladay signed a 3 year extension for 40 million. Money certainly doesn't appear to be the decision maker for him here.

I mean if he's going to give the team a bargain, why not take it?


Who's to say he will give them another discount after they continue to miss the playoffs and finish 4th or last in the AL East for the next couple years??

He's under contract for two more years. And despite the fact that they are 4th right now, I just showed you that they have in reality been one of the better teams in the league this season.


Actually, no. You did not.
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Re: Is there any chance of this happening?

Postby mweir145 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:02 pm

bdrotoronto wrote:Wait a minute.. WHAT?!?..

For somebody that hasn't read what I have it might some unbelievable, but I'm not lying or purposely being ridiculous. They are both stats that vary consideribly from year-to-year.

A few articles to read:
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/btf ... onerun.htm
"In other words, how a team does one year in close games is absolutely
no use in predicting how it will do the next. Things like that are
usually called "the breaks of the game" or, more succinctly, luck."
http://www.diamond-mind.com/articles/james_onerun.htm

If I were running a fantasy team I would actually agree with this. But if Halladay goes then this team literally has no core to build around (I don't think guys like Wells and Rios are good enough to constitute a core, even though their salaries demand that a new GM will get stuck with them as such), and it's rare to get a player of Halladay's quality in recent years who actually likes being here and wants to stick around. That's the kind of player this team needs--get rid of guys like AJ Burnett instead who are indifferent to the team/town, even if they bring less return. Actually, pretty much the entire rest of the team would get less than 'full value' in return in trades, but I think that's an pretty serious indictment of the kind of quality JP's thrown together more than anything..

Roy Halladay is probably too old of a player to build around and would cost money to keep. If they can get a package like Kemp/Kershaw or something better than that to rebuild around (that's if they make the decision to rebuild, which they won't any time soon), it has to be seriously considered.
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Re: Is there any chance of this happening?

Postby mweir145 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:04 pm

The Handsome One wrote:Actually, no. You did not.

Using the 3rd order standings, a better predictor of future play, they've been the 5th best team in the AL, and 8th best in the majors. So yes, I did.
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Re: Is there any chance of this happening?

Postby The Handsome One » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:17 pm

mweir145 wrote:
The Handsome One wrote:Actually, no. You did not.

Using the 3rd order standings, a better predictor of future play, they've been the 5th best team in the AL, and 8th best in the majors. So yes, I did.


You showed that the Blue Jays could have been one of the better teams in the league. Maybe that is enough for you, but they currently have the tenth best record in the AL, which does not make them one of the better teams in the league.
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Re: Is there any chance of this happening?

Postby bdrotoronto » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:31 pm

mweir145 wrote:
bdrotoronto wrote:Wait a minute.. WHAT?!?..

For somebody that hasn't read what I have it might some unbelievable, but I'm not lying or purposely being ridiculous. They are both stats that vary consideribly from year-to-year.

A few articles to read:
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/btf ... onerun.htm
"In other words, how a team does one year in close games is absolutely
no use in predicting how it will do the next. Things like that are
usually called "the breaks of the game" or, more succinctly, luck."
http://www.diamond-mind.com/articles/james_onerun.htm

I'll keep this part brief and simple.. if a team has one of the best pitching staffs in the league, and is consistently losing tight games because its pathetic offence can't score any runs.. and this happens ALL THE TIME.. then the team's sad results cannot be attributed to fluke, chance, or "breaks of the game".. it is simply a reflection of what the team is. And right now, what the Blue Jays team is is "not good enough". Offence is a pretty significant part of the game and the Jays' offence is one of the worst around, so it's no fluke or luck their record isn't good--frankly if the pitching hadn't been lights out for the first few months then the Jays would be among the WORST teams in MLB, they were fortunate it was keeping them even remotely competitive

Roy Halladay is probably too old of a player to build around and would cost money to keep. If they can get a package like Kemp/Kershaw or something better than that to rebuild around (that's if they make the decision to rebuild, which they won't any time soon), it has to be seriously considered

That's valid. I'm actually not against the idea of trading Halladay on principle IF you can get something appropriately excellent in return. But I have no faith in JP to get a trade like that done, and wouldn't want him even entertaining the idea--someone competent has to handle a transaction of that magnitude. So until JP is fired, I am against the idea in principle.
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Re: Is there any chance of this happening?

Postby mweir145 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:21 am

The Handsome One wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
The Handsome One wrote:Actually, no. You did not.

Using the 3rd order standings, a better predictor of future play, they've been the 5th best team in the AL, and 8th best in the majors. So yes, I did.


You showed that the Blue Jays could have been one of the better teams in the league. Maybe that is enough for you, but they currently have the tenth best record in the AL, which does not make them one of the better teams in the league.

I should have said they've been one of the better teams in the league when looking at run differential (the main factor that goes into a team's future wins and losses), I apologize.
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Re: Is there any chance of this happening?

Postby Zito is God » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:34 pm

mweir145 wrote:
bdrotoronto wrote:Wait a minute.. WHAT?!?..

For somebody that hasn't read what I have it might some unbelievable, but I'm not lying or purposely being ridiculous. They are both stats that vary consideribly from year-to-year.

A few articles to read:
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/btf ... onerun.htm
"In other words, how a team does one year in close games is absolutely
no use in predicting how it will do the next. Things like that are
usually called "the breaks of the game" or, more succinctly, luck."
http://www.diamond-mind.com/articles/james_onerun.htm

If I were running a fantasy team I would actually agree with this. But if Halladay goes then this team literally has no core to build around (I don't think guys like Wells and Rios are good enough to constitute a core, even though their salaries demand that a new GM will get stuck with them as such), and it's rare to get a player of Halladay's quality in recent years who actually likes being here and wants to stick around. That's the kind of player this team needs--get rid of guys like AJ Burnett instead who are indifferent to the team/town, even if they bring less return. Actually, pretty much the entire rest of the team would get less than 'full value' in return in trades, but I think that's an pretty serious indictment of the kind of quality JP's thrown together more than anything..

Roy Halladay is probably too old of a player to build around and would cost money to keep. If they can get a package like Kemp/Kershaw or something better than that to rebuild around (that's if they make the decision to rebuild, which they won't any time soon), it has to be seriously considered.



4 pages ago you claimed that kershaw and kemp for Halladay was laughable and you would never accept it. So which one if it?
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Re: Is there any chance of this happening?

Postby mweir145 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:44 pm

Zito is God wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
bdrotoronto wrote:Wait a minute.. WHAT?!?..

For somebody that hasn't read what I have it might some unbelievable, but I'm not lying or purposely being ridiculous. They are both stats that vary consideribly from year-to-year.

A few articles to read:
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/btf ... onerun.htm
"In other words, how a team does one year in close games is absolutely
no use in predicting how it will do the next. Things like that are
usually called "the breaks of the game" or, more succinctly, luck."
http://www.diamond-mind.com/articles/james_onerun.htm

If I were running a fantasy team I would actually agree with this. But if Halladay goes then this team literally has no core to build around (I don't think guys like Wells and Rios are good enough to constitute a core, even though their salaries demand that a new GM will get stuck with them as such), and it's rare to get a player of Halladay's quality in recent years who actually likes being here and wants to stick around. That's the kind of player this team needs--get rid of guys like AJ Burnett instead who are indifferent to the team/town, even if they bring less return. Actually, pretty much the entire rest of the team would get less than 'full value' in return in trades, but I think that's an pretty serious indictment of the kind of quality JP's thrown together more than anything..

Roy Halladay is probably too old of a player to build around and would cost money to keep. If they can get a package like Kemp/Kershaw or something better than that to rebuild around (that's if they make the decision to rebuild, which they won't any time soon), it has to be seriously considered.



4 pages ago you claimed that kershaw and kemp for Halladay was laughable and you would never accept it. So which one if it?

2 entirely different situations (one was based on the current team and their goals and motiviation, and one was based on the assumption that they would be rebuilding). You should probably read a little more closely.
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Re: Is there any chance of this happening?

Postby JTWood » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:54 pm

The Handsome One wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
The Handsome One wrote:Actually, no. You did not.

Using the 3rd order standings, a better predictor of future play, they've been the 5th best team in the AL, and 8th best in the majors. So yes, I did.


You showed that the Blue Jays could have been one of the better teams in the league. Maybe that is enough for you, but they currently have the tenth best record in the AL, which does not make them one of the better teams in the league.

This got a good laugh out of me. Thank you. :-b
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Re: Is there any chance of this happening?

Postby The Handsome One » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:37 pm

mweir145 wrote:I should have said they've been one of the better teams in the league when looking at run differential (the main factor that goes into a team's future wins and losses), I apologize.


That is funny, because run differential is also the main factor in determining current wins and losses, and that is where the Blue Jays have been nothing more than mediocre.
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