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The Dark Knight(SPOILERS VERSION)

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Re: The Dark Knight(SPOILERS VERSION)

Postby mweir145 » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:18 pm

wake wrote:I took this from the other TDK thread-

mweir145 wrote:
GiantsFan14 wrote:i really loved the movie but i think the end was definitely lacking a bit with the whole ferry scene. i mean i guess they were trying to show how the joker couldn't corrupt everyone but that neither ferry would blow the other up when they were told they would both be blown up otherwise is just silly. especially when one is full of convicts (i also thought the part where the convict threw the detonator out the window was kinda cheesy

This was one of my few problems with the movie. In real life, I don't think there's any doubt the people on those boats would have detonated their bomb, probably even within a few seconds.


It also bothered me how nonchalant everyone was when the one guy decided not to blow up the other prisoner's ferry. It seemed like everyone was indifferent to what he did with the detonator.

I felt that whole scene was a bit lame, actually. Especially the guy's whole speech before throwing it out the window.

I also know that scene was supposed to show how the people of Gotham were actually moral people, but I don't see how someone could be blamed for choosing to blow up the other ferry. In reality, both ferries should've been blown up at midnight. Given that fact, do you really have the right to make a stand based solely on principles when there are children and other people who will die because of it?


I just think humans would do what they need to do to survive, whether that's killing a whole other boat of people or not. It doesn't at all matter whether they are criminals or ordinary citizens. They would all go for their remotes immediately and press them within seconds. I don't have much doubt about that, and the Joker would have been proven correct. Not everybody is as moral as Batman is. In fact, the Joker kind of pointed that out during their conversation in jail.

I don't know whether they were trying to make it a somewhat feel-good ending, but it wasn't necessary, and it certainly didn't feel real.
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Re: The Dark Knight(SPOILERS VERSION)

Postby bigh0rt » Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:19 pm

Was I the only one hoping the non-prisoners would push the remote and blow up their own boat?
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Re: The Dark Knight(SPOILERS VERSION)

Postby TheA'sFatLeadoffMan » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:03 pm

bigh0rt wrote:Was I the only one hoping the non-prisoners would push the remote and blow up their own boat?


I saw this with my brother and that's what he thought was gonna happen, not the prisoners specifically, but figured whichever boat pressed the button would end up blowing themselves up.
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Re: The Dark Knight(SPOILERS VERSION)

Postby mweir145 » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:24 pm

bigh0rt wrote:Was I the only one hoping the non-prisoners would push the remote and blow up their own boat?

That would have been way better.
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Re: The Dark Knight(SPOILERS VERSION)

Postby wake » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:02 am

I don't think that's something the Joker would do though. He seemed to prefer letting people making their own moral decisions and having it haunt them later. That's also why I don't think he mislead Bale in choosing between Gylenhaal (the more selfish choice) and Eckhardt (who was more important to the future of Gotham). Though I can't explain why Bale would then say he was going after Rachel unless he changed his mind on the way.
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Re: The Dark Knight(SPOILERS VERSION)

Postby jlm53089 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:08 am

wake wrote:I don't think that's something the Joker would do though. He seemed to prefer letting people making their own moral decisions and having it haunt them later. That's also why I don't think he mislead Bale in choosing between Gylenhaal (the more selfish choice) and Eckhardt (who was more important to the future of Gotham). Though I can't explain why Bale would then say he was going after Rachel unless he changed his mind on the way.


If he listen throughout you know he gave the adresses backwards to mess with Batman.

And if someone were to blow up a boat and their own would sink than the other would get charged with blowing it up and it would be a huge cry of hysteria.
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Re: The Dark Knight(SPOILERS VERSION)

Postby thedude » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:06 am

mweir145 wrote:I just think humans would do what they need to do to survive, whether that's killing a whole other boat of people or not. It doesn't at all matter whether they are criminals or ordinary citizens. They would all go for their remotes immediately and press them within seconds. I don't have much doubt about that, and the Joker would have been proven correct. Not everybody is as moral as Batman is. In fact, the Joker kind of pointed that out during their conversation in jail.

I don't know whether they were trying to make it a somewhat feel-good ending, but it wasn't necessary, and it certainly didn't feel real.


I actually i thought the process on the non-prisoners boat was pretty realistic. Nearly everyone wanted to blow the other boat. And the captain wanted to let the people decide (the voting allowed him to wash his hands of the matter), so he would not be singularly responsible for blowing the other boat. Everyone wanted to survive, but no one wanted to be the one to push the button. Everyone is wants to live, but they want someone else to do the dirty work that was necessary to make it so. It is very hard for any one person to take responsibility as the guy who grabbed the detonator found out.

The prisoner throwing the detonator out the window was probably a little over done.
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Re: The Dark Knight(SPOILERS VERSION)

Postby mweir145 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:15 am

thedude wrote:
mweir145 wrote:I just think humans would do what they need to do to survive, whether that's killing a whole other boat of people or not. It doesn't at all matter whether they are criminals or ordinary citizens. They would all go for their remotes immediately and press them within seconds. I don't have much doubt about that, and the Joker would have been proven correct. Not everybody is as moral as Batman is. In fact, the Joker kind of pointed that out during their conversation in jail.

I don't know whether they were trying to make it a somewhat feel-good ending, but it wasn't necessary, and it certainly didn't feel real.


I actually i thought the process on the non-prisoners boat was pretty realistic. Nearly everyone wanted to blow the other boat. And the captain wanted to let the people decide (the voting allowed him to wash his hands of the matter), so he would not be singularly responsible for blowing the other boat. Everyone wanted to survive, but no one wanted to be the one to push the button. Everyone is wants to live, but they want someone else to do the dirty work that was necessary to make it so. It is very hard for any one person to take responsibility as the guy who grabbed the detonator found out.

I don't know about that. I still think that within seconds of hearing that message people would have been grabbing for that remote. It's just a natural reaction to survive. Morals don't even really come into play in the situation I'm talking about.

The prisoner throwing the detonator out the window was probably a little over done.

Just a little? :-b
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Re: The Dark Knight(SPOILERS VERSION)

Postby wake » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:16 am

jlm53089 wrote:If he listen throughout you know he gave the adresses backwards to mess with Batman.


Was there something else I missed besides Batman telling the police he was going after Rachel? It just seems strange that Batman didn't show any surprise when he entered the building with Dent or that he didn't mention being tricked when he was mourning for Rachel. Besides, considering how Batman later talked about how important Gotham's "White Knight" was, I think he would've chosen to save Dent over Rachel anyways. If the Joker did trick Batman though, I think it was a poor plot choice since it was never expanded on later.
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Re: The Dark Knight(SPOILERS VERSION)

Postby bigh0rt » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:49 am

wake wrote:
jlm53089 wrote:If he listen throughout you know he gave the adresses backwards to mess with Batman.


Was there something else I missed besides Batman telling the police he was going after Rachel? It just seems strange that Batman didn't show any surprise when he entered the building with Dent or that he didn't mention being tricked when he was mourning for Rachel. Besides, considering how Batman later talked about how important Gotham's "White Knight" was, I think he would've chosen to save Dent over Rachel anyways. If the Joker did trick Batman though, I think it was a poor plot choice since it was never expanded on later.

The actual addresses that Joker gives him. The address is later brought up by Dent when he tells Gordon to meet him there, which was the address that Joker told Batman Harvey was at.
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