in the Dark Night thread someone brought up a point that we should have a seperate thread where we can openly discuss the film full thru without any color changing non sense or anything else, so here is a thread where anyone WHO HAS ALREADY VIEWED THE FILM CAN COME IN AND DISCUSS/RATE/COMMENT ON IT...IF U HAVE NOT YET SEEN THE FILM YOU HAVE BEEN FORWARNED.
there ya go everyone, talk about this classic all ya want. In the original thread i gave it a 10/10 as i thought everything was absolutely excellent and that 2:30 went by so quickly for me. Looking forward to everyones full view on it.
Structurally this movie suffered and probably should have been made into two movies (which would have made them a ton more money. This one should have focused entirely on the Joker. They built up Harvey, and that was all well and good - but I think they should have saved evil Harvey for the third movie.
First off, What was the scarecrow doing in the beginning? He never showed back up and what was going on was never totally explained. The dialogue between the bad guys and Batman there was also extremely cheesy. "Don't let me catch you out here again"
Second, Christian Bale's garbled evil Batman voice is more annoying and over the top than anything.
Third, there was a great chase with the Joker launching the bazooka out of the tractor trailer. That chase ended with BAtman bearing down on him on the motorcycle. Batman avoids running him over and skids his bike. He is magically knocked unconscious by this. Then Gordon magically reappears and is able to arrest the Joker simply by pointing a gun at him without any fight (Though it could be argued he wanted to be arrested)
Then the Joker is in jail. All the momentum is gone. But then magically Harvey and Rachael have been captured. When was the last time Rachael was in the movie? How hard would it have been to SHOW them being apprehended. No they just bring it up in dialogue as they they forgot to film it. Lame. It was like they were trying to regain all the momentum all at once and force it into the first of two climaxes.
The ending of the movie felt too forced, as though they didnt want to make it any longer. I think cutting Evil Harvey and saving it for a third movie where you explore the Two Face/Batman relationship since both of them have connection to Rachael would have been much better.
Somewhere buried in there was a 100 minute movie that was as epic as every claims this movie was - but I think they tried to do too much - and that takes it down a notch. Also the 10 minute resolution after the car chase to the out of nowhere dramatic tension of Harvey and Rachael being tied up was a very bad ten minutes. It showed periods of magnificence, but it was by no means the best movie ever.
I didn't get that rush - edge of the seat - still feeling it when I walk to the car kind of rush that some other action movies have given me.
I'd like to talk about the ending, more specifically the "death" Harvey Dent.
I think that the "funeral" scene does not mean that Harvey Dent. I saw it as a metaphor for the death of Harvey Dent as the White Knight, but the birth of Two-Face. Very similar to the transformation Anakin Skywalker went through as he turned to Darth Vader. Remember when Obi-Wan told Luke that his father had died? Yeah, same kind of thing here.
So, I would guess that the authorities either locked up Two-Face (only for us to watch him escape in the next movie), or he fled the scene after coming too, following his fall. Either way, he was probably proclaimed dead and given a service, because, in truth, the real Harvey Dent died when he became Two-Face.
Thoughts?
And let me just say how breath-taking Heath Ledger's performance was. I have never seen something so close to perfection. He took the Joker, and made it his own and performed the hell out of it. I couldn't believe how eerie/sadistic/cruel/hilarious he made the Joker. A flawless, timeless performance.
And let me just say how breath-taking Heath Ledger's performance was. I have never seen something so close to perfection. He took the Joker, and made it his own and performed the hell out of it. I couldn't believe how eerie/sadistic/cruel/hilarious he made the Joker. A flawless, timeless performance.
Although he is going to get a lot of this type of credit because of his death, I still think it is due. I was excited to see this character and promised myself I would make an unbiased judgment. I can't really come up with anything overly negative. He completely put Nicholson's Joker to shame. Epic performance.
I don't know, I like how it ended quite a bit actually. Harvey Dent did die, and I like what Batrman/Wayne did there. Dent did what he needed to do, Batman does what he needs to do. I think for the purposes of the universe laid out by Nolan, Dent was more good than bad.
I love that they focused on the duality of batman and joker, and how they really need each other. I thought dawes' point was nice in the letter, that Wayne needs Batman -- and its to the degree that there will always be a "joker" even if its not specifically him. I also think the way it ended was pretty neat, because the now commish gordon will ALWAYS be loyal to batman, as he knows what he really did for the city, as well as knowing what Dent stood for, and what he became because of the joker.
I thought the whole thing was fantastic. The Joker is still loose/alive (I consider him loose if he is still alive, as he is obviously smart and nasty), and Batman is reticent when it comes to killing, although he perhaps should. I think the thing with Rachel was well-done considering too. Both men would be very appealing to a woman like that, and I thought her letter was pretty poignant to be honest. I think a lot of us are so invested in ourselves, that you wouldn't let go, even if it meant more happiness.
I really like that they held off on the Joker until the second film. I think Spidey got that right too, but using Doc Ock in the second film, rather than the first. My only hope is that they forsake Mr. Freeze and Penguin in favor of the Riddler, as I think the Riddler could still be demented but without resorting to ridiculousness.
Btw, when the batmobile split into the cycle as its "eject" that was pretty darn awesome. Especially the scene where he rode it up the wall and turned around. Niiice.
Somebody told me that Joker was slated to be the main villain in 2 more Batman flicks after The Dark Knight -- such a shame, because that would've truly been something else. I hope, too, that the Riddler is next in line, as I think they can get him across similarly to how they did the Joker without making it too campy.
Also, not to take anything from Ledger, as I said myself it's the best character performance I think I've ever seen, but Jack did one hell of a Joker, and is certainly not being 'put to shame' by anything. It was a different type of movie, and he was an amazing Joker, to the point that up until we saw the movie, nobody thought it was possible to match.
I have to agree about the shame of Ledger's death. It seemed fairly obvious to me that they meant for the Joker to remain a central figure for a long time. I mean, they haven't even began to brush the fact that he is the guy that killed Wayne's parents. That's half a movie by itself. Based on Ledger's performance in this flic, we were in for something special over the next few years.
Replacing Ledger's presence in this series seems, to me, to be impossible. I'm very curious to see how they handle it going forward.
bigh0rt wrote:Somebody told me that Joker was slated to be the main villain in 2 more Batman flicks after The Dark Knight -- such a shame, because that would've truly been something else. I hope, too, that the Riddler is next in line, as I think they can get him across similarly to how they did the Joker without making it too campy.
Also, not to take anything from Ledger, as I said myself it's the best character performance I think I've ever seen, but Jack did one hell of a Joker, and is certainly not being 'put to shame' by anything. It was a different type of movie, and he was an amazing Joker, to the point that up until we saw the movie, nobody thought it was possible to match.
"Put to shame" might be a little strong, I agree. Also, Burton's Batman is a lot different than Nolan's obviously. I can't help but get caught up in Ledger's performance though.
Thoughts on who could play potential future Batman villains...
Penguin* - Philip Seymour Hoffman Riddler** - David Tennant
*It is an absolute must that they keep it as non-campy as humanly possible, which may be tough for Penguin... **I think this could be perfect... I'm not too up on other Batman villains... Catwoman?
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by phillyphan12 » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:12 pm 
