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Sleeper Catchers for the Second Half

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Re: Sleeper Catchers for the Second Half

Postby Bobbleheadrusty » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:27 am

bigwords wrote:On the small chance that the Orioles find a taker for Ramon Hernandez, I'm going to ring doorbell # Matt Wieters.



There is NO way that Weiters is up before September roster expansions, and probably not even then. . If Ramon is traded then Quiroz will take over at C, and they will bring up someone from AAA (maybe even Castanzo who they tried at C during ST). Don't forget Q was a top prospect only a couple years ago, so they may want to see if there is anything there, and they are gonna keep Weiters from starting his clock. He may even get the Longoria treatment next year.
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Re: Sleeper Catchers for the Second Half

Postby bigwords » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:32 pm

Normally I'd agree with you, Bobbleheadrusty.

However, the Orioles are not like most organizations. They don't have a track record for being conservative when it comes to prospects and money. And don't underestimate their desire to finish .500 if they have any chance whatsoever. A strong finish means a lot more to that team from an economic perspective than saving a year on Weiters' clock. If they decide to trade Ramon Hernandez or George Sherrill or Brian Roberts, they're going to need to throw a bone to their rightfully disgusted and impatient fan base.

This isn't like the Longoria situation at all.

Plus, are you absolutely certain you know the arbitration/free agency implications of calling up a minor leaguer in September vs. August? Especially a catcher, who is unlikely to play every day. If he got called up today, he still probably would not get the 130 at bats to exhaust his rookie status.
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Re: Sleeper Catchers for the Second Half

Postby acsguitar » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:46 pm

Chris Ianetta is awesome
I'm too lazy to make a sig at the moment
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Re: Sleeper Catchers for the Second Half

Postby cnote23 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:49 pm

Ianetta is the best I think but he has already proven to be good so not really a 2nd half sleeper.
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Re: Sleeper Catchers for the Second Half

Postby Bobbleheadrusty » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:08 pm

bigwords wrote:Normally I'd agree with you, Bobbleheadrusty.

However, the Orioles are not like most organizations. They don't have a track record for being conservative when it comes to prospects and money. And don't underestimate their desire to finish .500 if they have any chance whatsoever. A strong finish means a lot more to that team from an economic perspective than saving a year on Weiters' clock. If they decide to trade Ramon Hernandez or George Sherrill or Brian Roberts, they're going to need to throw a bone to their rightfully disgusted and impatient fan base.

This isn't like the Longoria situation at all.

Plus, are you absolutely certain you know the arbitration/free agency implications of calling up a minor leaguer in September vs. August? Especially a catcher, who is unlikely to play every day. If he got called up today, he still probably would not get the 130 at bats to exhaust his rookie status.


Its not at bats, its service time. The longer they keep him in the minors the further away he is from arbitration. They would like to have the full three years rather then making him a super2 guy.

As for a strong finish, most fans are smart enough to recognize the value of getting back prospects. Finishing .500 is meaningless compared to long term growth, and McPhail will probably take more flack for not sticking to the plan and trying to acquire prospect.

I do agree that they will need to throw the fans a bone if they decimate the ML roster, but I think that will be in the form of an extension for Jones and Markakis (and Guthrie and maybe Roberts if they keep him).

Don't forget that Weiters started the year in A ball, and has been in AA for less then a month. I interviewed Komminsk for my blog and he believes Weiters is there through the end of the year.
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Re: Sleeper Catchers for the Second Half

Postby bigwords » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:54 pm

True, it's not at bats, it's service time. However, "Super 2" eligibility only comes into play if a player ranks in the top 17 percent in total service time among those players with at least two and fewer than three years’ service time. It's extremely doubtful with all the minor leaguers who have already been called up that Weiters would fall in this territory. And the only difference between the last day of August and the first day of September is the expansion of rosters. It doesn't have anything to do with arbitration.

As far as whether Weiters is ready, I believe he is. Yes, I know he played A ball for most of the season. However, he played college ball and is 22. And trust me, I'm pretty conservative when it comes to scouting young players. I don't believe Jay Bruce is ready, for instance.

As far as finishing .500 being meaningless and fans being smart enough bla bla, let me take a counter- counterintuitive take here. Perception effects reality. Marketing your team to prospective free agents is important. Selling advance season tickets for the following year is crucial.

Don't be fooled. Yes, baseball fans are smart. But O's fans are fed up beyond most fans. Take a look at a poll conducted in today's Baltimore Sun. Asked to name the potential trade chip that the team should absolutely keep, 65% of fans indicated Brian Roberts. Even though he'll soon be 31 and he'd obviously bring back the most in return.

Finally, the point of the thread was to gamble on a sleeper for the 2nd half. If you're looking for sleepers at this point, it tells me that you're not in first place and you're looking for big upside. Sorry, but Ramon Castro and Carlos Ruiz just don't fit that goal. Weiters may not be called up....but that doesn't mean he's not a sleeper for the very possibility he could be.
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Re: Sleeper Catchers for the Second Half

Postby ryanbraungod » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:59 pm

The only guy I can think of who can have an impact and could still be avaialble i Chris iannetta of the rockies... he is slugging like .540 and has been great over the last 30 games...
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Re: Sleeper Catchers for the Second Half

Postby Bobbleheadrusty » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:39 pm

bigwords wrote:True, it's not at bats, it's service time. However, "Super 2" eligibility only comes into play if a player ranks in the top 17 percent in total service time among those players with at least two and fewer than three years’ service time. It's extremely doubtful with all the minor leaguers who have already been called up that Weiters would fall in this territory. And the only difference between the last day of August and the first day of September is the expansion of rosters. It doesn't have anything to do with arbitration.

As far as whether Weiters is ready, I believe he is. Yes, I know he played A ball for most of the season. However, he played college ball and is 22. And trust me, I'm pretty conservative when it comes to scouting young players. I don't believe Jay Bruce is ready, for instance.

As far as finishing .500 being meaningless and fans being smart enough bla bla, let me take a counter- counterintuitive take here. Perception effects reality. Marketing your team to prospective free agents is important. Selling advance season tickets for the following year is crucial.

Don't be fooled. Yes, baseball fans are smart. But O's fans are fed up beyond most fans. Take a look at a poll conducted in today's Baltimore Sun. Asked to name the potential trade chip that the team should absolutely keep, 65% of fans indicated Brian Roberts. Even though he'll soon be 31 and he'd obviously bring back the most in return.

Finally, the point of the thread was to gamble on a sleeper for the 2nd half. If you're looking for sleepers at this point, it tells me that you're not in first place and you're looking for big upside. Sorry, but Ramon Castro and Carlos Ruiz just don't fit that goal. Weiters may not be called up....but that doesn't mean he's not a sleeper for the very possibility he could be.


My point is, and will remain, that Weiters is not going to be fantasy relevant this season. Even if he comes up, as you said, the last day of august, that gives him at most a month of activity, and thats assuming he becomes a full time starter. I would, if I needed a catcher at this point in the season, target someone who could actually help my team before the playoffs.

That said, I own Weiters and Ianietta in my Dynasty (and am starting Soto).
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