Any doubt left on the best pitcher in MLB? (when healthy) - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Any doubt left on the best pitcher in MLB? (when healthy)

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Re: Any doubt left on the best pitcher in MLB? (when healthy)

Postby Yoda » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:13 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:So this thread (about 120 responses) is devoted to discussing who might be the best pitcher is in baseball, and you're going to say something like "are you really telling me that you go into this much detail when evaluating pitchers"? If that much detail is equivalent to four or five mouse clicks, then I'd have to answer "yes". I have no vested interest in any of these pitchers....unfortunately for me none of my pitching staffs are any good this year. However, it's an interesting debate and the angles of argument are really endless. If you want to just play the numbers game be my guest. When I am interested in finding the answer to something, I usually try to do whatever I can to satisfy my interest. ;-D ;-D ;-D ;-D ;-D


Well then by your standards, you'd have to break down every single start by each pitcher and also consider who they faced in each outing and what each hitter was doing at the time. For instance, Lincecum faced the Cards 3 times. How many of those starts were with/without Pujols? Was he in a hot/cold streak? Did he pitch to him or pitch around him? What was the outcome of the match up?

I'm interested to see the results. I want you to analyze each of Lincecum and Volquez's start this year, pitch by pitch. Then you can convince me how easy it is to evaluate a pitcher based on his competition.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
Yoda
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 21344
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 15th green...

Re: Any doubt left on the best pitcher in MLB? (when healthy)

Postby AquaMan2342 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:43 pm

Yoda wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:So this thread (about 120 responses) is devoted to discussing who might be the best pitcher is in baseball, and you're going to say something like "are you really telling me that you go into this much detail when evaluating pitchers"? If that much detail is equivalent to four or five mouse clicks, then I'd have to answer "yes". I have no vested interest in any of these pitchers....unfortunately for me none of my pitching staffs are any good this year. However, it's an interesting debate and the angles of argument are really endless. If you want to just play the numbers game be my guest. When I am interested in finding the answer to something, I usually try to do whatever I can to satisfy my interest. ;-D ;-D ;-D ;-D ;-D


Well then by your standards, you'd have to break down every single start by each pitcher and also consider who they faced in each outing and what each hitter was doing at the time. For instance, Lincecum faced the Cards 3 times. How many of those starts were with/without Pujols? Was he in a hot/cold streak? Did he pitch to him or pitch around him? What was the outcome of the match up?

I'm interested to see the results. I want you to analyze each of Lincecum and Volquez's start this year, pitch by pitch. Then you can convince me how easy it is to evaluate a pitcher based on his competition.


Hmm.....it'd take some time no doubt. But it would be fun. If somebody knows of the best possible place to start, I'd be glad to get started.

I never said it was easy to evaluate a pitcher based on their competition by the way. One can infer, however, based on the output of their opponents so far this season.
AquaMan2342
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb Supporter
Posts: 7852
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Searchin for my mainline....I couldn't hit it sideways

Re: Any doubt left on the best pitcher in MLB? (when healthy)

Postby HOOTIE » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:24 pm

The Cow wrote: C.C. should definitely be on this list. One thing is for sure C.C. is a better pitcher than the brittle Cole Hamels. C.C. at age 27 has 107 wins. Hamels at age 24 has 32 wins.



I like Hamels more then CC. CC has 5 more years pitched, so his number of wins is moot.

ERA+
Hamels 127
CC 115

WHIP
Hamels 1.13
CC 1.26

WIN %
Hamels .640
CC .599
Smells Like Teen Spirit
HOOTIE
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe Ranker
Posts: 15115
(Past Year: 297)
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pearl Jam country, right next door to Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains.

Re: Any doubt left on the best pitcher in MLB? (when healthy)

Postby Snakes Gould » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:58 am

The Cow wrote:
Snakes Gould wrote:
kcs261 wrote:CC Sabathia shouldn't be left off this list. After his beginning of the year problems, he has jetted to the top of the pitcher rankings and has been virtually unhittable.


i guess we should mention paul byrd and jake westbrook next right? go right on down the indians rotation ;-D


Umm C.C. is a far better pitcher than Byrd and Westbrook. since April C.C. has a sub 2 ERA not to mention a CY Young in his back pocket. C.C. should definitely be on this list. One thing is for sure C.C. is a better pitcher than the brittle Cole Hamels. C.C. at age 27 has 107 wins. Hamels at age 24 has 32 wins. If C.C. got to pitch to the opposing SP instead of the DH it would be ridiculous.

By the way C.C. is a career .300 hitter with a .792 OPS, not too shabby he should be the Tribe's DH.

The Cow

P.S. Johan is the best pitcher in the game, C.C. should be on the list, though C.C. did own Johan last year.


it was a joke since he first mentioned lee and then cc.

hamels > cc.
Image

SIGS!

Shane Victorino wrote:“We keep fighting,” Victorino said. “We keep plugging along.”
Snakes Gould
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterGolden Eagle EyeWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 16051
Joined: 1 Nov 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Eternal Bliss

Re: Any doubt left on the best pitcher in MLB? (when healthy)

Postby mweir145 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:06 am

deerayfan072 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:A couple points etc.

Doesn't it matter WHO some of these pitchers have faced this year?

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/stati ... cid=204018

Yes. Rich Harden has faced the toughest batters in baseball this year as a full-time starter with over 50 IP (.782 OPS). Then it goes Matt Garza, Edwin Jackson, Brian Moehler, Justin Duchscherer, Felix Hernandez, Andrew Sonnanstine, Tim Redding, Josh Beckett, Livan Hernandez, Luke Hochevar, Nick Blackburn, Roy Halladay, Kevin Slowey, Scott Kazmir, James Shields, Jesse Litsch, Dave Bush, Gil Meche, Zach Greinke to round out the top 20.

That is 17 AL pitchers (8 AL East, 6 AL Central, 3 AL West) and 3 NL Pitchers (2 NL Central, 1 NL East). Volquez comes in at a .740 OPP OPS which is 9th in the NL.

Based on this...what Rich Harden has done this year (a 2.64 FIP) is extremely impressive.


The entire Rays staff and half of the Jays staff is on that list

A difficult division it is.

Halladay with his 10th shutout of his career tonight...he deserves to be on this list.
25
mweir145
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Eagle Eye
Posts: 16784
(Past Year: 10)
Joined: 3 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Toronto

Previous

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Tuesday, Sep. 23
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Kansas City at Cleveland
(7:05 pm)
Baltimore at NY Yankees
(7:05 pm)
NY Mets at Washington
(7:05 pm)
Seattle at Toronto
(7:07 pm)
Chi White Sox at Detroit
(7:08 pm)
Philadelphia at Miami
(7:10 pm)
indoors
Milwaukee at Cincinnati
(7:10 pm)
Tampa Bay at Boston
(7:10 pm)
Pittsburgh at Atlanta
(7:10 pm)
St. Louis at Chi Cubs
(8:05 pm)
Houston at Texas
(8:05 pm)
Arizona at Minnesota
(8:10 pm)
LA Angels at Oakland
(10:05 pm)
San Francisco at LA Dodgers
(10:10 pm)
Colorado at San Diego
(10:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact