Yes. Rich Harden has faced the toughest batters in baseball this year as a full-time starter with over 50 IP (.782 OPS). Then it goes Matt Garza, Edwin Jackson, Brian Moehler, Justin Duchscherer, Felix Hernandez, Andrew Sonnanstine, Tim Redding, Josh Beckett, Livan Hernandez, Luke Hochevar, Nick Blackburn, Roy Halladay, Kevin Slowey, Scott Kazmir, James Shields, Jesse Litsch, Dave Bush, Gil Meche, Zach Greinke to round out the top 20.
That is 17 AL pitchers (8 AL East, 6 AL Central, 3 AL West) and 3 NL Pitchers (2 NL Central, 1 NL East). Volquez comes in at a .740 OPP OPS which is 9th in the NL.
Based on this...what Rich Harden has done this year (a 2.64 FIP) is extremely impressive.
The entire Rays staff and half of the Jays staff is on that list
Yes. Rich Harden has faced the toughest batters in baseball this year as a full-time starter with over 50 IP (.782 OPS). Then it goes Matt Garza, Edwin Jackson, Brian Moehler, Justin Duchscherer, Felix Hernandez, Andrew Sonnanstine, Tim Redding, Josh Beckett, Livan Hernandez, Luke Hochevar, Nick Blackburn, Roy Halladay, Kevin Slowey, Scott Kazmir, James Shields, Jesse Litsch, Dave Bush, Gil Meche, Zach Greinke to round out the top 20.
That is 17 AL pitchers (8 AL East, 6 AL Central, 3 AL West) and 3 NL Pitchers (2 NL Central, 1 NL East). Volquez comes in at a .740 OPP OPS which is 9th in the NL.
Based on this...what Rich Harden has done this year (a 2.64 FIP) is extremely impressive.
It does make Rich Harden look even more dominant. Cliff Lee ranked 503rd out of 535 pitchers. That makes his numbers make a little more sense.
Yoda wrote:Are we seriously debating pitchers based on teams faced? Are Harden owners this desperate to make him the best pitcher on the planet?
Get with the program.
We're also going for a Barack/Harden ticket in '08, get on it.
If you have to lay out 'what if' scenarios like health and facing weaker competition then clearly he is not 'the' best pitcher.
I think if you have two pitchers that are close in numbers, but one has faced the toughest competition and the other has faced crap, it should come into play.
deerayfan072 wrote:I think if you have two pitchers that are close in numbers, but one has faced the toughest competition and the other has faced crap, it should come into play.
IE -- Harden's numbers v. Cliff Lee's numbers
OK but how do you quantify competition in a meaningful way? Team record? Runs scored? OBP? SLG? Or do you just look at the lineup strength? Also, do you account for who is out of the lineup during those starts? What if a team's offense is struggling at the time?
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
Also whos to say who they have faced will change? Lincecum is in the NL West with some horrid offenses. You say he has faced weak competition sure. But that doesnt mean he wont continue to. Same with Lee. Who is to say he wont continue to face crap offenses or good teams with hurt players or people getting the day off or sitting because of him being a lefty? Why cant we just compare the stats at face value and not try to over-analyze?
deerayfan072 wrote:I think if you have two pitchers that are close in numbers, but one has faced the toughest competition and the other has faced crap, it should come into play.
IE -- Harden's numbers v. Cliff Lee's numbers
OK but how do you quantify competition in a meaningful way? Team record? Runs scored? OBP? SLG? Or do you just look at the lineup strength? Also, do you account for who is out of the lineup during those starts? What if a team's offense is struggling at the time?
That I can't answer, I guess it would up to each person's own feelings towards what is useful. OPS is a pretty telling stat, but not the end all be all. As I said before, I don't think it is the end all be all or even close to that. IMO, if you have guys with close numbers and one has faced great teams and the other is dang near last place, it should be taken into account as part of the entire analysis. I wouldn't say that just because the guy faced "better" lineups and had good numbers it means he is the best, I think you need to take it all in as a whole and make a decision.
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by deerayfan072 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:46 am 
