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Aaron Harang can he turn it around?

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Re: Aaron Harang can he turn it around?

Postby StarsNPinstripes » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:52 pm

wildbill wrote:
StarsNPinstripes wrote:Thank You Dusty Baker for ruining another arm;Harang hasn't been the same since that relief appearance vs the Padres.

You can deservedly blame Dusty for a lot of pitcher problems over the years, but I don't think he's to blame in this case. Harang came into the season with over 230 IP the previous 2 season and 211 the year before that, long before Dusty ever came to town. The guy has been a horse period. I don't think you can soley blame that relief appearance. Volquez also made a relief appearance in that game and he was fine after that. Sure Volquez has had some ruff periods since then, but he wasn't going to have a sub-2 ERA all season. Furthermore in that game both teams were desperate for pitching. Dusty had no choice but to use both SP in relief in that game, the pen was empty. If you look at his stats Harang has been frequently overrated.


A lot of valid points and maybe his work load over the past few seasons could've caught up but Volquez threw 39 pitches(which could be considered a throw day between starst type workout I guess) and took his normal turn where Harang threw 63 pitches and went back out on 3 days rest. NOt a smart move IMO. One thing we can agree on is Harang has been brutal. :-P
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Re: Aaron Harang can he turn it around?

Postby wildbill » Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:48 am

cruecu wrote:I'm not sure how he's overrated. I'll sign up for a pitcher who has thrown over 200 innings since 2005, with almost a strikeout per inning. All this while keeping an ERA around 3.75 and a good WHIP. If anything, he's been underrated before his recent problems. Throw him on a good team and he's John Lackey with a few more K's.

Well that's why he's overrated and you've fallen into that trap too. When people talk about him he's looked at as an ace. He's not. A 3.75 ERA while good is a bottom end #1 or #2 starter ERA. A lot of people seem to expect him to be in the low 3s or better, i.e. an ace like ERA. His whip while good is not great either. Only once has he posted a WHIP under 1.26. He piles up the Ks, but he's never challenged a K/IP. Yes he numbers are good and he's been a horse until this year, but people look at him as a fantasy ace and the numbers say he's not.

Lackey has posted an ERA under 3.50 in 3 of the last 4 years if you include this year and the 4th year was 3.56. Lackey has shown improvements in WHIP the past few years and seems a little better in that category now. Lackey is better for the most part, but Harang does have him in Ks/IP. Leaving wins out of it, because they are team dependent, overall Lackey is a bit better IMO, a solid #1, but I don't think people overrate him like they do Harang. I'm not saying Harang sucks, though he does this year, but I still maintain a lot of people overrate him thinking he's the kind of pitcher that can rescue a team like only 5 or 6 pitchers (Webb, Santana, Peavy, and a few others) can.
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Re: Aaron Harang can he turn it around?

Postby wildbill » Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:50 am

StarsNPinstripes wrote:
wildbill wrote:
StarsNPinstripes wrote:Thank You Dusty Baker for ruining another arm;Harang hasn't been the same since that relief appearance vs the Padres.

You can deservedly blame Dusty for a lot of pitcher problems over the years, but I don't think he's to blame in this case. Harang came into the season with over 230 IP the previous 2 season and 211 the year before that, long before Dusty ever came to town. The guy has been a horse period. I don't think you can soley blame that relief appearance. Volquez also made a relief appearance in that game and he was fine after that. Sure Volquez has had some ruff periods since then, but he wasn't going to have a sub-2 ERA all season. Furthermore in that game both teams were desperate for pitching. Dusty had no choice but to use both SP in relief in that game, the pen was empty. If you look at his stats Harang has been frequently overrated.


A lot of valid points and maybe his work load over the past few seasons could've caught up but Volquez threw 39 pitches(which could be considered a throw day between starst type workout I guess) and took his normal turn where Harang threw 63 pitches and went back out on 3 days rest. NOt a smart move IMO. One thing we can agree on is Harang has been brutal. :-P

Don't forget Volquez threw on less rest and throwing a side session is not the same as throwing under the stress of the game on the line and with runners on base. I think every manager and coach would tell you that. Not to mention Volquez is a younger pitcher not used to the heavy workload and people had more concern about that at the time.
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Re: Aaron Harang can he turn it around?

Postby StarsNPinstripes » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:28 am

Fair points and if it were any manager I'd be griping just as much it just happened to be Dusty in this instance.

With the ww so thin I'm thinking of holding him(benched of course) to see what he does vs Col and Houston(his next projected starts) and if he looks decent start him vs Pittsburgh.Having said this, he's on drop notice so once something decent comes along(or when Matt Capps is activated,possibly this week?) it's see ya Harang.
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Re: Aaron Harang can he turn it around?

Postby StarsNPinstripes » Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:11 pm

Light at the end of the tunnel?
From Cincinnati Enquirer:
My opinion on why Aaron Harang was so good Friday night?

He pitched like a power pitcher. He threw mostly fastballs, and he was throwing them at 93, 94.

"No. 1, he was letting it go," Dusty Baker said. ".His fastball had good life, good late movement."

Harang said he made a mechanical adjustment this week -- something about staying back with his hands. Whatever it was it worked.


I saw this game and while the Rockies did get men on base and Holliday hit a foul ball that was a foot short of being a grand slam, Harang looked confident out there and his fastball was just as described above vs his last start where his fastball was non exsistent.We'll see.
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Re: Aaron Harang can he turn it around?

Postby cruecu » Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:31 pm

wildbill wrote:
cruecu wrote:I'm not sure how he's overrated. I'll sign up for a pitcher who has thrown over 200 innings since 2005, with almost a strikeout per inning. All this while keeping an ERA around 3.75 and a good WHIP. If anything, he's been underrated before his recent problems. Throw him on a good team and he's John Lackey with a few more K's.

Well that's why he's overrated and you've fallen into that trap too. When people talk about him he's looked at as an ace. He's not. A 3.75 ERA while good is a bottom end #1 or #2 starter ERA. A lot of people seem to expect him to be in the low 3s or better, i.e. an ace like ERA. His whip while good is not great either. Only once has he posted a WHIP under 1.26. He piles up the Ks, but he's never challenged a K/IP. Yes he numbers are good and he's been a horse until this year, but people look at him as a fantasy ace and the numbers say he's not.

Lackey has posted an ERA under 3.50 in 3 of the last 4 years if you include this year and the 4th year was 3.56. Lackey has shown improvements in WHIP the past few years and seems a little better in that category now. Lackey is better for the most part, but Harang does have him in Ks/IP. Leaving wins out of it, because they are team dependent, overall Lackey is a bit better IMO, a solid #1, but I don't think people overrate him like they do Harang. I'm not saying Harang sucks, though he does this year, but I still maintain a lot of people overrate him thinking he's the kind of pitcher that can rescue a team like only 5 or 6 pitchers (Webb, Santana, Peavy, and a few others) can.



I was speaking about real-life baseball. Sorry. This is my first year playing Fantasy Baseball and sometimes I forget we're just talking about fantasy value. I was saying Harang is underrated because he'd be a stud if he played in a big market. If he could keep that ERA in the AL, that is very close to a real-life ace for some of these teams.
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