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Disaster Strikes my League.... Please Help!!!

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Disaster Strikes my League.... Please Help!!!

Postby Nails86 » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:45 pm

I understand that this is probably the wrong forum, but my league is in a crisis right now and I need some answers FAST. I hope that the Mod's will let this stay on this board at least for tonight and then move it to where ever. There is more traffic on this forum and I really need some input. It is a very strong league where there are pick ups and trades on a daily basis as well as constant chatter and trade rumors on the CBS message boards.

Two GM's have been implicated in a cheating scandal. Here is what happened. We have a ten team 5X5 Roto Money league with a bunch of guys who are all buddies. One of my buddies has been the weakest link to the league. He was the only one to stop updating his lineup last year and he frankly doesnt know much about baseball, let alone fantasy baseball. He just wanted to be in the league to be with his buds. This year he vowed to be an integral part of the league but after the first two weeks, his team hit the cellar once again. He lost interest and was ridiculed by his buddies for not updating his lineup etc. He had an early firesale and again fell to last place. At this point he hired another GM in the league to help him improve his team. The GM was paid 100 bucks for every ten points that he would move the team up in the standings. This is where the slippery slope began.

The other GM gave him trade and Free agent pick up ideas. Then, he gained access to his username and password. The lazy GM allowed this to happen. Eventually it turned into the kid basically running two teams in one league and the lazy GM pretending that he was the one doing it. Two weeks ago, the cheating GM was on the lazy GM's account and accidentally posted a message on his account. People were outraged by this but the cheater said that the lazy GM had asked him to go on just for that day to set his lineup. The whole league then agreed that no one should know anyone's password under any circumstances and that the Commish should be the only one to go on someone's else's roster if need be. The lazy GM and the cheater vowed to never do it again and the password was changed. However, the scandal continued. The kid made pick ups and trades for him. He also made trades to himself. The lazy GM finally could not live with the guilt and shame of it anymore and came clean earlier today. So basically, in the last 3 weeks there have been phony free agent pick ups and trades. The lazy GM's team did actually improve by about 28 points. The other cheater's team moved up to 1st place. However, I am now outraged and will be booting both GM's. The rest of the league is pretty outraged as well and no one has a solution. One other GM already threatened to leave the league. My question to you guys is: How can I save this league and is it possible to reverse this cheating? Should I reverse every trade and trade the players back?

I consider myself a good Commish but i am not experienced with anything like this and want to hear some opinions. Also, is there anything more I could have done as commish to prevent this? I know cheating is human nature and it was impossible to see this coming but I feel like I have let my league down somehow. It is a great league despite this and people have invested countless hours into it. How can we revive it? On another note, we are looking for two reliable (honest) GM's to join this league. Please let me know if you are interested. We are looking for GM's who are active in trading and enjoy good baseball chatter, trade rumors and general talk amongst buddies. Your help is very much appreciated.

Mods- Please allow this to stay at least for a few hours. Thank you!

-A Commish in a Crisis

P.S.
You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. ~Jim Bouton, Ball Four, 1970
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Re: Disaster Strikes my League.... Please Help!!!

Postby NWSoxaholic » Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:27 pm

OK- I'll take a crack at it.

First, boot the 2 GM's and get 2 more (I'm available..). Second- cheating is such a tough thing to try and catch, especially with online leagues and such. This is only my second year in Fantasy baseball, but I was picked to be the Commish this year and one of the things I tried to combat was the" Guy Who Doesn't Really Know Baseball, but Plays for His Buddies and Stops Playing at the ASB" (also known as the TGWDRKBPHBSPASB), which makes up about part of my league. I tried to simplify the scoring and (although alot of people will disagree) I won't let lopsided trades go through so no one gets shafted. We're all playing for money and the guys who know baseball can win without screwing over their buddies who put in money also (and have lesser odds of winning).

So here's what I think- two new GMs and let the two GMs redraft from those players. I think that way neither team will be in first and you'll have a little more competition. It really sucks for everyone playing, but I think you just have to go from there and enjoy the second half.
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Re: Disaster Strikes my League.... Please Help!!!

Postby Bobbleheadrusty » Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:36 pm

Well that was confusing.

Correct me if my summary is wrong here, but this is the story;
1. 10 team league
2. One guy doesnt really care about the league so he let another GM help him out
3. That GM made free agent moves and trades on behalf of the bad team.
4. You kicked them both out.


Ok, here is how I see it.
Do not reverse any FA moves UNLESS the dual manager was dropping players so he could pick them up. If that happened then reverse ALL moves.
Were trades made between the two teams? You only said he made trades, not that he traded with himself. If that is the case then immediately reverse ALL trades, otherwise do not do this.
If you kick them out of the league then refund all (or at least a portion) of the funds. Its not worth being accused of theft for keeping the funds.
If you do kick them out then freeze both rosters for the season.

While letting the other guy have account access isnt the best solution, this isnt the first or last time that one manager helped out another (less experienced one) with advice on how to run a team. I have a friend who actually beat me last year after I wound up giving him advice on trades and FA pickups. As long as they didnt swap players then I say let it be with a harsh reprimand.

You really cant redistribute those players at this late point, as it will be very unfair for players who wind up with the later picks. Also its hard to redistribute points this late into the season if you toss them both into a pool and let new managers split the teams. How do you calculate the points scored earlier in the season?
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Re: Disaster Strikes my League.... Please Help!!!

Postby Nails86 » Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:47 pm

The guy went on his account and picked up players without the lazy Gm's knowledge. He also traded with himself twice. It is just a mess. Who should be refunded? If both rosters are frozen, wouldn't these teams just drop to the bottom? Why not reverse the two phony trades that the guy made on his own and let 2 new Gm's take over? Also, they haven't been kicked out yet but I am assuming they will be after the impending vote when all of the facts are presented.
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Re: Disaster Strikes my League.... Please Help!!!

Postby DVauthrin » Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:55 pm

Nails86 wrote:The guy went on his account and picked up players without the lazy Gm's knowledge. He also traded with himself twice. It is just a mess. Who should be refunded? If both rosters are frozen, wouldn't these teams just drop to the bottom? Why not reverse the two phony trades that the guy made on his own and let 2 new Gm's take over? Also, they haven't been kicked out yet but I am assuming they will be after the impending vote when all of the facts are presented.


Replace both of them, and neither gets their money back.. reverse the trades between the teams, and you run both squads until you can find replacement owners... offer those owners a discounted rate to take over midseason.
hook em horns, go stros
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Re: Disaster Strikes my League.... Please Help!!!

Postby Nails86 » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:21 am

I agree with you that sounds like the best option but how do I account for the stats that have accumulated because of the phony trades?
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Re: Disaster Strikes my League.... Please Help!!!

Postby NWSoxaholic » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:24 am

Yeah- I don't see any reason to refund their money. They cheated and ruined it for everyone else. It's their own fault if they don't get back their money. I defintiely wouldn't let the teams run without a GM the rest of the season, since that happened in our league and it's incredibly frustrating to have a bunch of players locked up that you can't trade for.

Bobblehead- I was saying just redraft the players from those 2 teams with just the two new GMs, so both of those teams will be pretty even and run from there. This would pretty much guarantee that the 1st place team doesn't stay there and the last place team gets better.
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Re: Disaster Strikes my League.... Please Help!!!

Postby DVauthrin » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:28 am

Nails86 wrote:I agree with you that sounds like the best option but how do I account for the stats that have accumulated because of the phony trades?


can you change stats in your league as the commish? if you can, go back to the days the crappy trades went through and do the number crunching(on yahoo you see night by night) i'm doubting you can though, so here are two other options:

1) you basically bench their players for a couple of weeks to make up for phony stats...

2) instead of getting 2 new owners, you drop down to 8 teams, and hold an expansion draft to take a certain number of players off their squads, and you then make add's to fill the spots with free agent players... and freeze the teams for the yr.
hook em horns, go stros
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Re: Disaster Strikes my League.... Please Help!!!

Postby Grouperman941 » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:38 am

Nails86 wrote:I agree with you that sounds like the best option but how do I account for the stats that have accumulated because of the phony trades?


If I remember right, you are on CBS.

After returning the teams to their original state, use "Edit Service Time" for each player involved to set what team they were on, what position they played, and whether they were active or not for each period. If there are a lot of players, it is tedious, but I believe the stats will fix themselves after the next update. Make sure they have legal line-ups if you want the stats to count.

(If a commish wanted to cheat in roto, "Edit Service Time" would be the place to do it!)

I would poll the league before reversing all that though. If the guys are OK with just booting the managers, don't bother with all this.

Also, no way cheaters get their money back.

It sucks that friends would do this.
Be excellent to each other.
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Re: Disaster Strikes my League.... Please Help!!!

Postby tinfoilxtouch » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:05 am

I've been the commish of a competitive league with friends for the past six or seven years... lots of iffy situations come up. One of our managers is in the Marines, and would have to leave his team for weeks (or months) at a time. He always had someone with his password updating his team and making WW pickups as needed. We have a young kid in our league this year, and his friend who brought him into the league helps him with moves all the time.

There is nothing wrong with two managers helping each other, or even making moves for each other (with permission of course).

The line is drawn when the manager controlling both teams makes moves with himself. This is, under any circumstance, 100% unacceptable unless disclosed and approved by the league ahead of time. Now there are even exceptions to the trade situation though. If Team A has Utley and Phillips and Team B has Wright and Braun, I see no problem with the manager trading something like Utley for Wright- assuming he discloses to the league he's working both ends of the trade. Why is this okay? Because it's even, it makes sense, and everyone in the league has been made aware of the fact it's the same person on both ends so they can be more attentive in watching the moves for fairness.

Assuming all of the trades the two teams in your league made were fair, I think you just have to bit the bullet, realize it shouldn't have happened, and make sure it doesn't happen again.

The real solution here is to not invite the lazy manager back next season- you don't want guys who you KNOW are going to bring nothing to the league.

If the trades were way lopsided, I think the commish should reverse the deals if he has the ability, or else force the other teams to reverse them under threat of getting their rosters locked.
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