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Motivating keeper owners...

Postby Inukchuk » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:16 pm

This is the second year of our keeper auction league. We keep 5 for $5 more than we paid for them the year before. Amazingly enough, it's only June and 4 of 12 teams have already said "screw it" to this year and dealt their strong nonkeepers for future prospects. What has happened is there are 3 absolutely stacked teams and 4 leper colonies.

I made a big announcement before the season that I am very anti veto, assuming that each manger was intelligent enough to not screw themselves (collusion would never happen, BTW). Well, the following trade just happened:

Team A gives Russ Martin ($15), Derek Lee ($25), Hunter Pence ($10), Cole Hamels ($25), and Takashi Saito ($12)

Team B gives Nate McLouth ($1)...and that's it.

Needless to say, we had to veto and I was none too happy about doing it. The outcry from the rest of the league was just too much to ignore. Team A (who was in 6th place at the time) said he knew he couldn't make it into the $$$, so he may as well build toward next year.

My question is this: what can I do (aside from booting the "play for next year" owners) to make sure this doesn't become a yearly thing? The main thing I'm thinking is to just jack up the league fees or to pay out more places (currently top 3). Anyone have this problem, and if so, what are some solutions?

Thanks in advance for the help...
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Re: Motivating keeper owners...

Postby noseeum » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:00 pm

That's just crazy that deal. Unfortunately, when you add keepers, owners need to learn the new dynamics of the market.

Owner B should have known he should shop around when he's dumping. In a dump trade, it's a must that you explore all options and tell the other contending owners that you're dumping. Let them know someone's going to come out with a prize for the stretch, so either they can sit on the sidelines and watch someone else get better, or they can put in a bid. That's how the price stays reasonable.

I would tend to let this one go and make owner B realize he screwed himself. I mean, does he have 4 other stud keepers? I've found that in the first couple of years, people favor cheap over skilled. Then they realize they have no studs and too much money to spare because no one gives up their $30 studs. So then they end up overpaying for mediocre players in next year's auction and their team ends up being crappy for two years.

People learn over time, but these deal can be a little annoying at first.
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Re: Motivating keeper owners...

Postby Inukchuk » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:47 am

Great advice. I just let the trade through. Now it's time for the fallout...
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Re: Motivating keeper owners...

Postby noseeum » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:49 am

Inukchuk wrote:Great advice. I just let the trade through. Now it's time for the fallout...


I would post something on the board telling people they REALLY need to shop around if they plan on dumping. That's the only way they'll get the best price for their assets. And of course publicly ridicule Team B for getting HOSED.
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Re: Motivating keeper owners...

Postby Inukchuk » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:49 am

Done and done... :-b
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Re: Motivating keeper owners...

Postby flloyd » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:43 am

1. Why have a keeper league if you don't want to teams to dump players?
2. Have a monetary penalty for finishing in the last 3 places, just like you reward the top 3 places. People can still dump players to play for next year but they'll realize that it comes with a cost.
3. Since its an auction league maybe you should give extra auction dollars to teams that finish out of the money but not last. That is 4th place gets an extra $10, 5th gets $9, etc. This way even if they are out of it they'll still want to play well this year and not dump all of their good players.
4. Don't have teams where the owners are obviously incompetent. That team should have easily been able to get way more than McLouth for what he gave up. Even if he only needed one more keeper to make five, what happens if McLouth gets injured? He's sold off all of his bargaining chips and will end up with nothing.
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Re: Motivating keeper owners...

Postby Inukchuk » Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:34 pm

Very good idea on the penalization, floyd. What I've decided is that the 9-12 teams will have to pay a certain potion of the 5-8 finishers' league dues the following year. That way, 1-4 get their winnings purse, but the teams that didn't pack it in still get a small reward for playing to win. It also encourages the dumpers to not mortgage their whole team for keepers.

Thanks a ton!
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Re: Motivating keeper owners...

Postby Bobbleheadrusty » Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:45 am

Inukchuk wrote:Very good idea on the penalization, floyd. What I've decided is that the 9-12 teams will have to pay a certain potion of the 5-8 finishers' league dues the following year. That way, 1-4 get their winnings purse, but the teams that didn't pack it in still get a small reward for playing to win. It also encourages the dumpers to not mortgage their whole team for keepers.

Thanks a ton!


I dont like that at all. First, buy ins should be consistent for everyone. I know I wouldnt want to keep playing in a league where I pay more then other people to join. Also, changing payoffs mid season is a bad decision too.

My suggestion, do a playoff-style format for a bonus. Since you are auction consider putting dollars next year on the board. Maybe say that the teams that finish 5-6 dont have to pay the $5 penalty for two of their keepers, and 7-8 dont have to do it for one keeper. That should keep everyone motivated.


If its roto do it the last 10 weeks of the season, same with points leagues. For h2h do a losers bracket playoff.
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Re: Motivating keeper owners...

Postby FilmMan » Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:01 pm

One of the leagues I know there is a monetary reward for "most improved" the team that gains the most points after the all-star break.

Personally, I can't fault anyone for trying to improve for next year. The aforementioned trade above is obviously a ridiculous over the top example of a dump trade. But here's a dump trade that happened in my league this year already. (12 team mixed)

Ichiro $25
Fielder $27
for
Tulowitzki $1
Gallardo $11

Now personally (even though I think this one is a tad unbalanced) - I think the values of the players received by the dumper are good values - yet the 2008 impact will be negligible. I don't think you can punish someone (i.e. have a penalty enforced) for finishing lower in the standings because he traded for injured players. The whole reason to have keepers in the first place is so that when you are out of it, you can find a way to improve for next year. Many a league title has been swung with good dump trades. The real key - and what most people forget - is in order to be on the receiving end of the dump trade you have to have had a good draft. Otherwise you won't have the players to trade in the first place. So it still all begins and ends with the draft!
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Re: Motivating keeper owners...

Postby Inukchuk » Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:43 pm

Bobbleheadrusty wrote:I dont like that at all. First, buy ins should be consistent for everyone. I know I wouldnt want to keep playing in a league where I pay more then other people to join.


Well, if you finish top 4, you pay the same. If you finish 5-8, you actaully pay less. There's only a 33% chance you'd pay more, and that's the sacrifice you'd have to make if you decided to play for next year. I don't want people tanking, because it causes problems with the league.

Also, changing payoffs mid season is a bad decision too.


Totally agree. We'd implement at the beginning of next season.

Since you are auction consider putting dollars next year on the board. Maybe say that the teams that finish 5-6 dont have to pay the $5 penalty for two of their keepers, and 7-8 dont have to do it for one keeper. That should keep everyone motivated.


Now that is a very cool idea. I'll have to run both scenarios past my league and see what's preferable...thanks for the suggestions ;-D

Ooh, just noticed... post 1000. I'm officially a huge nerd...
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