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Re: Matt Kemp

Postby tah161 » Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:59 pm

Grounded Polo wrote:
tah161 wrote:
Grounded Polo wrote:Can Kemp play LF? He'll get more playing time as Alou's backup than platooning in LA's outfield.


He isnt plantooning as of right now because Andruw Jones is on the DL, but even before that he was starting most games besides at the beginning of the season.

and Why would he go the Mets? lol, who could they possibly trade for him?


I know Jones is out now and I can dream.



Yes you can.

Kemp is only 23. He had a great season last year but this year he has struggled with making adjustments (like every young player). I just hope he will eventually be able to make these adjustments.

I mean look at Ryan Braun he has 12 walks and 55 strike outs while Kemp has 16 walks and 66 strike outs. Braun just has a little but more power but considering he hits infront of Prince he gets a lot of good pitches to hit.

I feel Kemp needs to be batting in the 3rd spot despite his strike out rate but the Dodgers need to give him a little more protection then Jeff Kent.

What they could do is Make a deal for Bay but try to keep Kemp on the team. This may mean getting rid of Loney and Ethier.

I really hope Kemp pans out considering many top prospects dont pan out and I think he will.
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Re: Matt Kemp

Postby AquaMan2342 » Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:25 pm

The Artful Dodger wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:I'd take Kemp for Ordonez! ;-D


Maggs is quite expensive and up there in age while Detroit isn't in fire sale mode yet. He's either the worst or second-worst option the Dodgers could consider.

daniel80111 wrote:if you dont trade him for Holliday you would be absolutely crazy. There is nothing out there that tells me that Kemp can be as good as Holliday. The only thing that Kemp has on him will be speed, I dont ever see Kemp hitting 35+ HR driving in 135 RBI's. The Kemp Potential Kool Aid is just much too overvalued. This is coming from by far and away the largest Dodger supporter on this board.


We don't even have Dodger fans on this board. ;-7

Kemp has the power talent, as some would say he has a Manny Ramirez-type stroke that could develop. The question is if and when he ever matures to the point of realizing his ceiling or if he needs a change of environment to do such in. Supposedly, management is impatient about the kids (Loney and Ethier included) that have had their growing pains, especially with Kemp, seeing how there were a lot of inquiries over the offseason, which would've entailed coming up with a package for a big-ticket player (Johan Santana comes to mind). Kemp has a world of talent, but his plate discipline is sketchy for the most part (as expected from a young hitter anyway) and that's what has held him back.

I don't see the Dodgers getting Holliday because the Rockies will be looking for a lucrative package with Kemp not being enough. Colletti was really cautious in wanting to deal Kemp and it should be interesting to see if he's less cautious in dealing some good/great talent on the side with Kemp to make a move for one of the four OF linked.



Interesting points about Kemp......so what do YOU think he is going to turn into?
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Re: Matt Kemp

Postby Snakes Gould » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:41 pm

daniel80111 wrote:if you dont trade him for Holliday you would be absolutely crazy. There is nothing out there that tells me that Kemp can be as good as Holliday. The only thing that Kemp has on him will be speed, I dont ever see Kemp hitting 35+ HR driving in 135 RBI's. The Kemp Potential Kool Aid is just much too overvalued. This is coming from by far and away the largest Dodger supporter on this board.


really? because holliday will be a free agent and you'll have to fork over 150 million over 7-8 yrs to pay the guy. if im the dodgers, id much rather have kemp for 5-6 more yrs and spend the money elsewhere, ESPECIALLY if i have to give up more than just kemp!
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Re: Matt Kemp

Postby The Artful Dodger » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:47 pm

Snakes Gould wrote:
daniel80111 wrote:if you dont trade him for Holliday you would be absolutely crazy. There is nothing out there that tells me that Kemp can be as good as Holliday. The only thing that Kemp has on him will be speed, I dont ever see Kemp hitting 35+ HR driving in 135 RBI's. The Kemp Potential Kool Aid is just much too overvalued. This is coming from by far and away the largest Dodger supporter on this board.


really? because holliday will be a free agent and you'll have to fork over 150 million over 7-8 yrs to pay the guy. if im the dodgers, id much rather have kemp for 5-6 more yrs and spend the money elsewhere, ESPECIALLY if i have to give up more than just kemp!


Exactly. Same scenario with trading for Dunn. I think we have some sunk money in the payroll off the books next year (not sure how much) to fork up a little money for Holliday, but the Dodgers aren't likely to afford to give Holliday the M-Cab payoff. Kemp, on the other hand, is extremely affordable now, and although his value should rise as he matures with good form, he'll be a far cheaper alternative in the short-term at least.

AquaMan2342 wrote:Interesting points about Kemp......so what do YOU think he is going to turn into?


I can't give a clear-cut answer, but Kemp has superstar potential, with the likelihood he pans out as a good player. An all-star caliber player or more than just a good player, it remains to be seen, but I wouldn't bet against him. He has a long way to go, but he's only 23 going on 24, and possesses the frame of a developing power hitter.

As for the Braun comparison, I don't believe it's an apt one. Like I said, Kemp is still susceptible to being baited into offspeed pitches (even the ones that tail away). Braun strikes out a lot, but he has great bat speed to offset that when he does get contact on the ball. Kemp has a good power stroke, but if he shortens that swing more, sticking to hitting the opposite way for success, I do think the power will flow more naturally for Kemp in due time. I don't see Kemp panning out as a 30 HR hitter, but he has a good shot of it within the next few years.
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Re: Matt Kemp

Postby daniel80111 » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:50 am

Snakes Gould wrote:
daniel80111 wrote:if you dont trade him for Holliday you would be absolutely crazy. There is nothing out there that tells me that Kemp can be as good as Holliday. The only thing that Kemp has on him will be speed, I dont ever see Kemp hitting 35+ HR driving in 135 RBI's. The Kemp Potential Kool Aid is just much too overvalued. This is coming from by far and away the largest Dodger supporter on this board.


really? because holliday will be a free agent and you'll have to fork over 150 million over 7-8 yrs to pay the guy. if im the dodgers, id much rather have kemp for 5-6 more yrs and spend the money elsewhere, ESPECIALLY if i have to give up more than just kemp!


Assuming that you ONLY have to give up Kemp, I think Holliday is well worth it. A guy with good character and someone that we already pretty much know what his ceiling is, seems like a good option. I understand that Kemp MAY be better than him, but even if he is I dont see him being much better. Kemp is obviously one of the most physically gifted players in the league, but he has no idea how to really play baseball. His contact rates scare me more than his plate discipline though. Some guys can swing at pitches outside the zone and make decent contact, but his combination of bad eye and not being able to make contact really hurts his future projection in my mind.

And for the guy that said I obviously haven't seen him play...lets just say I get to see him a lot, and he's going to be a good player, but he is overvalued by other clubs in this league at this point.

Artful Dodger I didnt mean to say there weren't big Dodger fans on here, it's just that I've got a lot invested in them. :)
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Re: Matt Kemp

Postby Snakes Gould » Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:11 am

daniel80111 wrote:
Snakes Gould wrote:
daniel80111 wrote:if you dont trade him for Holliday you would be absolutely crazy. There is nothing out there that tells me that Kemp can be as good as Holliday. The only thing that Kemp has on him will be speed, I dont ever see Kemp hitting 35+ HR driving in 135 RBI's. The Kemp Potential Kool Aid is just much too overvalued. This is coming from by far and away the largest Dodger supporter on this board.


really? because holliday will be a free agent and you'll have to fork over 150 million over 7-8 yrs to pay the guy. if im the dodgers, id much rather have kemp for 5-6 more yrs and spend the money elsewhere, ESPECIALLY if i have to give up more than just kemp!


Assuming that you ONLY have to give up Kemp, I think Holliday is well worth it. A guy with good character and someone that we already pretty much know what his ceiling is, seems like a good option. I understand that Kemp MAY be better than him, but even if he is I dont see him being much better. Kemp is obviously one of the most physically gifted players in the league, but he has no idea how to really play baseball. His contact rates scare me more than his plate discipline though. Some guys can swing at pitches outside the zone and make decent contact, but his combination of bad eye and not being able to make contact really hurts his future projection in my mind.


whoa.... now if you want to use the argument of "we dont know how good kemp is going to be", "im scared he doesnt hit rhp enough", "im willing to pay ofr a proven stud" im with you, but for you to admit that you think kemp could be better than holliday or even the same and still be willing to trade for holliday, then you're insane.

for one, you have to make sure holliday agrees to a full extension before the deal is done
and two, to admit kemp could be better or even equal to holliday, and is 4-5 yrs younger and ultimately 150 million dollars cheaper, how could you say you would trade for holliday.

three, the rockies would want more than just kemp to do a deal for holliday, which again, would make zero sense for la.

(i wont even go into the out of colorado regression that every former rockies hitter has gone through).
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Re: Matt Kemp

Postby daniel80111 » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:05 am

really? because holliday will be a free agent and you'll have to fork over 150 million over 7-8 yrs to pay the guy. if im the dodgers, id much rather have kemp for 5-6 more yrs and spend the money elsewhere, ESPECIALLY if i have to give up more than just kemp![/quote]

Assuming that you ONLY have to give up Kemp, I think Holliday is well worth it. A guy with good character and someone that we already pretty much know what his ceiling is, seems like a good option. I understand that Kemp MAY be better than him, but even if he is I dont see him being much better. Kemp is obviously one of the most physically gifted players in the league, but he has no idea how to really play baseball. His contact rates scare me more than his plate discipline though. Some guys can swing at pitches outside the zone and make decent contact, but his combination of bad eye and not being able to make contact really hurts his future projection in my mind.
[/quote]

whoa.... now if you want to use the argument of "we dont know how good kemp is going to be", "im scared he doesnt hit rhp enough", "im willing to pay ofr a proven stud" im with you, but for you to admit that you think kemp could be better than holliday or even the same and still be willing to trade for holliday, then you're insane.

for one, you have to make sure holliday agrees to a full extension before the deal is done
and two, to admit kemp could be better or even equal to holliday, and is 4-5 yrs younger and ultimately 150 million dollars cheaper, how could you say you would trade for holliday.

three, the rockies would want more than just kemp to do a deal for holliday, which again, would make zero sense for la.

(i wont even go into the out of colorado regression that every former rockies hitter has gone through).[/quote]


You make a great point about the contract. Kemp is much much cheaper than what Holliday will demand. Given that, the Dodgers flat out need a name that will put asses in the seats. They are suffering out here watching a bunch of youngsters (given that they are talented) that may or may not turn out. Getting Holliday would be a huge infusion of energy into this team and organization (given he doesn't get hurt unlike the other 18,000 big name signings we have). And your point about rockies hitters leaving Coors Field is a good one. That's something that I am worried about too, but in this division if you can add a bat like Holliday with a pretty good staff like the Dodgers have, you can make a serious run.

I also think that Holliday is one of those special guys. Guys like him come around very rarely. Someone that had minimal to decent success in the minors and figured out a way to make himself play into the major league elite by working extra hard. I just admire that and LA needs a guy like him. He's no Shawn Green in terms of power, but with runners in scoring position there are few better than him...and speaking of RBI's this team needs them badly.

In all honesty, I believe Kemp will be a pretty damn good player, but I don't see him challenging for batting titles and hitting 35-40 HR year in and year out. He does project for power though (I'd say around 30) and if he can ever learn how to play baseball he can be a really good player. I hate to also bring this up, but his character is a HUGE question mark...after last year's rift with the veterans and this year's brawl due to frustration (he struck out on an off speed pitch...again). I can understand why you'd be reluctant to trade him though, cheap and worlds of talent in that body.

We'll see where Holliday gets moved. And we'll also see how Kemp continues to progress.
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Re: Matt Kemp

Postby Snakes Gould » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:13 am

no shawn green? :-b that made me chuckle.
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Re: Matt Kemp

Postby daniel80111 » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:19 am

Snakes Gould wrote:no shawn green? :-b that made me chuckle.



hahaha I'm serious Snakes...Greenie was an animal for us when he was in his prime. Those HR numbers were no joke, and he was Jewish which made everyone kinda happy our best player was a Jew. haha
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Re: Matt Kemp

Postby AussieDodger » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:47 am

daniel80111 wrote:You make a great point about the contract. Kemp is much much cheaper than what Holliday will demand. Given that, the Dodgers flat out need a name that will put asses in the seats. They are suffering out here watching a bunch of youngsters (given that they are talented) that may or may not turn out. Getting Holliday would be a huge infusion of energy into this team and organization (given he doesn't get hurt unlike the other 18,000 big name signings we have). And your point about rockies hitters leaving Coors Field is a good one. That's something that I am worried about too, but in this division if you can add a bat like Holliday with a pretty good staff like the Dodgers have, you can make a serious run.

I also think that Holliday is one of those special guys. Guys like him come around very rarely. Someone that had minimal to decent success in the minors and figured out a way to make himself play into the major league elite by working extra hard. I just admire that and LA needs a guy like him. He's no Shawn Green in terms of power, but with runners in scoring position there are few better than him...and speaking of RBI's this team needs them badly.

In all honesty, I believe Kemp will be a pretty damn good player, but I don't see him challenging for batting titles and hitting 35-40 HR year in and year out. He does project for power though (I'd say around 30) and if he can ever learn how to play baseball he can be a really good player. I hate to also bring this up, but his character is a HUGE question mark...after last year's rift with the veterans and this year's brawl due to frustration (he struck out on an off speed pitch...again). I can understand why you'd be reluctant to trade him though, cheap and worlds of talent in that body.

We'll see where Holliday gets moved. And we'll also see how Kemp continues to progress.


Matt Holliday has hit .234/.299/.363 at Dodger Stadium in his career, so the hitter you think you're getting may be not what you actually get.
There is absolutely no way on this earth I would trade Kemp+++ for Holliday. His agent is Scott Boras, so there is no way you are going to be able to re-sign him for a non-bonkers amount of money. The difference between Holliday home and away is absolutely astronomical, 1.085 OPS to .780 OPS. And are you serious about wanting to trade because of character and bums in seats? What happens if it turns out you have 2 Andruw Jones' in the outfield? Won't that turn more fans away? I'm sure there are cheaper ways to find a gold ole boy who can tell a great p___ joke in the locker room.
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