The Greatest of the Greats

[LCBOY]

Good point Lo. You also have to consider that Mario is playing into his 40's, which Gretzky didn't, and Mario didn't have Kurri/Messier/Anderson on his team during a huge scoring boom in the NHL. Yeah, he had Jagr for a while, but Pittsburgh wasn't a scoring machine like Edmonton was. Put Lemieux on the teams that Gretzky was on, and he might have billions of assists too. But the fact that Mario won't play anywhere near the games Gretzky did will pretty much leave Gretzky as the uncontested best ever. I think Mario was better when he actually played though, and I like him more too

I am not a hockey expert by any means. But wasn't the NHL of the 80s, similar to the 1920s-30s in baseball or the NBA of the 60s, a huge offensive era?

[Lofunzo]

Good point Lo. You also have to consider that Mario is playing into his 40's, which Gretzky didn't, and Mario didn't have Kurri/Messier/Anderson on his team during a huge scoring boom in the NHL. Yeah, he had Jagr for a while, but Pittsburgh wasn't a scoring machine like Edmonton was. Put Lemieux on the teams that Gretzky was on, and he might have billions of assists too. But the fact that Mario won't play anywhere near the games Gretzky did will pretty much leave Gretzky as the uncontested best ever. I think Mario was better when he actually played though, and I like him more too

I am not a hockey expert by any means. But wasn't the NHL of the 80s, similar to the 1920s-30s in baseball or the NBA of the 60s, a huge offensive era?

It was a big offensive time but all that you need to do is look at Gretzky relative to his competition at that time.

[so0perspam]

The best soccer player of all-time is up in the air between Michel Platini, Giacinto Facchetti, Johan Cruyff, "Der Kaiser" Franz Beckenbauer, Alfredo Di Stéfano, Pele, Maradona, and Ferenc Puskas.

While the lasting fame of Pelé helped him to be recognized as the world’s best footballer ever, people who have seen Di Stéfano played unanimously agreed that the Argentine was a better player. And the only one who deserves to be called "the greatest".
His versatility, stamina and perfection in every art of the game made him not only a deadly goalscorer, but also an excellent playmaker and defender.

[wkelly91]

Babe Ruth revolutionized baseball. Contrary to comments he wasn't fat till the end of his career...he stole 123 bases. He was a great pitcher. The game of baseball was forever changed by him in a way no one has done before or since.

Wilt Chamberlain had a similar effect on basketball. Rules were changed because of him. He averaged 50 points scored for an entire season. MJ was great but he only refined the game not re-created it. I think a greater case could be made for Dr.J changing the game more than MJ.

[LCBOY]

For baseball, that wipes out Bonds for me because it is too early for any influence from him to be felt, time will tell though. Plus, he didn't dominate his entire career, just the latter part. Is this enough to be called great? I suppose this is what the thread is for. He's getting longevity that some of the other great players didn't get.

Not true. Barry won his first MVP in 1990. That was his age 25-26 season. He won his first three MVPs by age 29. He's been a HoF player since 1990. That's 15 seasons. Not exactly the "latter part" of his career.

[wkelly91]

You are right he elevated his game in 1991, but he truly elevated it another step in 2001

[FatGuyWithAMullet]

Well shucks..

Baseball - Ted Williams

Football - Lawrence Taylor

Hockey - Bobby Orr

[perlick29]

Well shucks..

Football - Lawrence Taylor

Finally, something we agree on.

[baseball6791]

For baseball, that wipes out Bonds for me because it is too early for any influence from him to be felt, time will tell though. Plus, he didn't dominate his entire career, just the latter part. Is this enough to be called great? I suppose this is what the thread is for. He's getting longevity that some of the other great players didn't get.

Not true. Barry won his first MVP in 1990. That was his age 25-26 season. He won his first three MVPs by age 29. He's been a HoF player since 1990. That's 15 seasons. Not exactly the "latter part" of his career.

Agreed and I'm glad that I didn't have to make the exact same post. In baseball I'd take Ruth, Mays, or Teddy. Basketball I'd take Wilt. Football is too close too call. Hockey is The Great One (and there is a reason he is called that).

[WharfRat]

I don't know how anybody takes ANYONE but Babe Ruth. Consider this: In 1921 Babe broke the career home run record as a 26-year-old. He then went on to hit 575 more. He set the single-season record for home runs in 1919, with 29. Two years later, he DOUBLED it plus 1.

And plus there was the pitching, blah blah blah.

That type of dominance is unheard of. If the question is "who is the greatest," then Babe is it hands down. If the questions is, "who could play in any era", then I could see arguments for Teddy or whoever else....

Basketball - George Mikan deserves a mention here. They didn't call him the Original Big Man for nothing. Would Wilt, Russell et. al. have happened if Mikan didn't happen? Also the nerdiest-looking superstar of all time, I think. R.I.P. big fella.

Hockey - I had a friend who printed out Gretzky's career stats and taped them to the wall above the toilet in his bathroom. Whenever we were over there, every time we had to go to the bathroom, we'd stare at these stats while we handled business. And everybody would just wait for a moment before leaving the bathroom, transfixed, no matter how many times they'd been in there, even if they were done pissin. Tell me we'd do the same for Gordie Howe.