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The Greatest of the Greats

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Postby Tavish » Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:51 am

New Zealand Fan wrote:
Tavish wrote:Rugby: Jonah Lomu



Nice to see Rugby get a mention but what Jonah Lomu has done in Rugby is not much more than what Johan Santana has done in baseball. Lomu wouldn't even make a Top 20 list in New Zealand Rugby, let alone World Rugby.


Obviously I'm not the greatest rugby follower, I gave him the nod for the same reason I voted Sampras and A Canadian as the best in their sports, it was the first name that came to mind.
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Postby BostonBK7 » Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:12 am

I heard somewhere that Wayne Gretzky is not the greatest hockey player and its simply something that most people think...some sports channel. Any hockey fans out there??
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Postby Pokeyouindaeye » Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:57 am

Uh, I would believe Gretzky is the greatest hockey player ever. I remember a Time magazine article which "attempted" to compare his feats in hockey to other sports, and it basically stated that he was indeed "The Great One."

If for some reason you don't believe Gretzky is the greatest, I'd easily put Gordie Howe in right behind him.


92 goals.... In 1 season?!

Here's a list of Stats....
http://www.upperdeck.com/athletes/waynegretzky/statistics_records.aspx
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Postby LBJackal » Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:19 am

Gretzky not the greatest? Well, I guess Mario is close. Gordie Howe was OK too. But I don't think anybody was nearly as good as Gretzky. To put it in perspective, he averaged 203 points per season from 1981 to 1987. Since he retired, only 5 people have even scored 100 points in a season! He has more career assists then anybody else has points. And obviously he has the most goals all-time. Nobody will ever approach him for career points, which is partly due to lack of scoring these days, and partly due to him being the best :-D
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Postby Irish » Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:36 pm

Basketball: Jordan (don't even start arguing that. and I hated the guy)

Hockey: Gretzky (Stats above and beyond)

Football: Jim Brown (you could say it was his era, but he could still play now at 60. He's a friggin beast.)

Baseball: I have no clue: But i hate saying babe because he was so fat.
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Postby NZF » Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:11 pm

Irish wrote:
Baseball: I have no clue: But i hate saying babe because he was so fat.


And he had a very feminine running style :-D

What he did do that no other professional ball player has ever come close to was dominate both as a pitcher and as a hitter, so it's really no contest. The greatest all around baseball player the game will EVER see. There can't be any arguments with this one ;-)
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Postby Lofunzo » Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:21 am

BostonBK7 wrote:I heard somewhere that Wayne Gretzky is not the greatest hockey player and its simply something that most people think...some sports channel. Any hockey fans out there??


Whoever said that is an idiot. Gretzky's stats are mind-boggling. While he played in a much more offensive period, it is hard to overlook the numbers. He has more assists than anyone else has points. I believe that he is around 1,000 points better than #2. As for Gretzky vs. Mario, I have discussed this numerous times (not here). IMHO, Gretzky is the greatest player ever while Lemieux is the most talented. If not for injuries and such, I believe that he was the only guy who could challenge Gretzky's title.

To put it into perspective, Gretzky averaged 1.921 points-per-game over his career while Lemieux is averaging 1.913 PPG. 7-8 additional points over his career and he would have matched Gretzky there.
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Postby LBJackal » Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:02 am

Good point Lo. You also have to consider that Mario is playing into his 40's, which Gretzky didn't, and Mario didn't have Kurri/Messier/Anderson on his team during a huge scoring boom in the NHL. Yeah, he had Jagr for a while, but Pittsburgh wasn't a scoring machine like Edmonton was. Put Lemieux on the teams that Gretzky was on, and he might have billions of assists too. But the fact that Mario won't play anywhere near the games Gretzky did will pretty much leave Gretzky as the uncontested best ever. I think Mario was better when he actually played though, and I like him more too :-)
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Postby Lofunzo » Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:06 am

LBJackal wrote:Good point Lo. You also have to consider that Mario is playing into his 40's, which Gretzky didn't, and Mario didn't have Kurri/Messier/Anderson on his team during a huge scoring boom in the NHL. Yeah, he had Jagr for a while, but Pittsburgh wasn't a scoring machine like Edmonton was. Put Lemieux on the teams that Gretzky was on, and he might have billions of assists too. But the fact that Mario won't play anywhere near the games Gretzky did will pretty much leave Gretzky as the uncontested best ever. I think Mario was better when he actually played though, and I like him more too :-)


Mario is my favorite player ever. Skillwise, I might be inclined to put him over Gretzky. That said, the intangibles and massive point lead make Gretzky the greatest ever. :-?
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Postby Rkiivs » Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:07 am

Hmmm...I guess everyone has their own definition of 'great'. I guess for me it's always someone who changed the way the game is played and who's influence is still felt today.

For baseball, that wipes out Bonds for me because it is too early for any influence from him to be felt, time will tell though. Plus, he didn't dominate his entire career, just the latter part. Is this enough to be called great? I suppose this is what the thread is for. He's getting longevity that some of the other great players didn't get. Case in point, Ted Williams could have very likely been in that 700 HR club if he didn't put his career on a back burner for about 4 years during the war back in the 40's.

It will always be Babe Ruth for me because he wasn't breaking any standards, he was setting them in pitching and hitting (which was mentioned earlier in this thread). It wasn't an era of the long ball like it is now.

Can't speak for other sports. I'm only a casual football fan so would only be able to speak for players I'm familiar with. Gayle Sayers would get my vote since he changed the way the RB ran for everyone that followed him later.

Hockey...er...well, I'll not insult our northern neighbors so I'll take a pass on that comment.

Basketball: no thanks, I'll stick to team sports.


Anyone can throw a name out there. If you can, try to let us know why you think a player is great to help see your viewpoint (and to learn more about them).
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