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Colorado Expands Anti-Discrimination Laws

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Re: Colorado Expands Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby knapplc » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:45 pm

Beat, that's very Leviticus of you. :-b ;-)

I really recommend a significant amount of study regarding the Old Testament covenants and the New Testament covenant, and how they affect our lives today. It is important to note that we are New Creatures, and not all of the old covenants apply today.
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Re: Colorado Expands Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby beatdrum » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:55 pm

knapplc wrote:Beat, that's very Leviticus of you. :-b ;-)

I really recommend a significant amount of study regarding the Old Testament covenants and the New Testament covenant, and how they affect our lives today. It is important to note that we are New Creatures, and not all of the old covenants apply today.


But isn't God's law unchanging? Ignoring parts of the Old Testament, it would be like "pick and choosing the parts that are convenient to us, like a menu".
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Re: Colorado Expands Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby knapplc » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:02 pm

Not in the least, just like it wasn't wrong for Israel to follow the covenant God gave them on Sinai instead of the covenants made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, just like it's not wrong for the Israelites to follow superseding covenants that were given in the Promised Land. Jesus is the fulfillment of all previous covenants, rendering previous covenants obsolete. We are not bound by those Old Testament covenants any longer. This was one of the major mistakes of the Judaizers in the early First-Century church.
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Re: Colorado Expands Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby beatdrum » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:46 pm

knapplc wrote:Not in the least, just like it wasn't wrong for Israel to follow the covenant God gave them on Sinai instead of the covenants made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, just like it's not wrong for the Israelites to follow superseding covenants that were given in the Promised Land. Jesus is the fulfillment of all previous covenants, rendering previous covenants obsolete. We are not bound by those Old Testament covenants any longer. This was one of the major mistakes of the Judaizers in the early First-Century church.


Okay, sure. Not being a Christian, I won't pretend to know all the theological nuances. However, I stick to my idea that public policy should not be based on Christianity. I believe I have a document backing me up on this.
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Re: Colorado Expands Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:33 pm

knapp - I still dont think I am condemning anyone (ie your ref to John 8: 1-11). I am condemning the act of homosexuality as a sin as it states in the Bible. I believe I already mentioned that I wake up a sinner like everyone else and that my sins are no more or less than anyone elses. A sin is a sin and they all seperate us from God. You say this isnt the venue to discuss the Bible, then my question to you is - what is the venue to tell people what the Bible says? I dont understand why you tell me that by repeating what it says in the Bible is contradictory to Jesus' teachings.

Beatdrum - Now your argument about using Christian beliefs to determine public policy I can understand although your examples about the Old Testament laws are a bit off. This is another sticking point to me as a Christian. Since I have decided to try and live for Christ, shouldnt that include how I vote and if ever in a position to decide law/policy, shouldnt those laws/policies be directed by my God? I know this will probably be an even bigger issue than probably anything else I have written, but its some serious food for thought.

Mookie - Listing off all those denominations that condone a sinful act as stated by the Bible may help you understand why I think so few people who call themselves Christians are truly Christians. As I stated before - I think this is one of the most pressing issues regarding Christianity. I dont see how its possible to go against God's Word and still be a Christian. Why do you seem so appalled that I would take such a basic stance? Dont get me wrong - I am not saying all people who sin are not Christians - thats would be absurd of course since everyone sins. What I am saying is that if the Bible says something as clearly as it does about homosexuality or lying or stealing or murder or whatever sin you choose to use, and you then come back and say I disagree, its not a sin - then that is not a true Christian belief.

As far as denominations accepting homosexuals, I have no problem with that. Accepting sinners to help guide them to a life in Christ is what churches should be doing. If churches only accepted non-sinners no one would be accepted. But there is a difference between opening your doors for everyone and saying something isnt a sin when the Bible clearly states that it is.
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Re: Colorado Expands Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby beatdrum » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:15 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:Beatdrum - Now your argument about using Christian beliefs to determine public policy I can understand although your examples about the Old Testament laws are a bit off. This is another sticking point to me as a Christian. Since I have decided to try and live for Christ, shouldnt that include how I vote and if ever in a position to decide law/policy, shouldnt those laws/policies be directed by my God? I know this will probably be an even bigger issue than probably anything else I have written, but its some serious food for thought.


I once worked with a teacher who is deeply religous. I asked her what she thought about gay marriage. She thought that gays should be allowed to marry. This surprised me. I asked her how she squares that with her religous beliefs. She said that even though she personally was against it, she felt that she can't force others to live the way she lives.

A person's religious belief is a deeply personal thing. So to answer your question, no those laws/policies shouldn't be directed by your God. A lot of people don't believe in some of the things espoused by your God.

It's arrogant to believe that your way of living is THE right way. Rather it's A way.
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Re: Colorado Expands Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:07 pm

beatdrum wrote:
It's arrogant to believe that your way of living is THE right way. Rather it's A way.


You can call it arrogance if you want, but thats not what the Bible teaches us.
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Re: Colorado Expands Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Amazinz » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:24 pm

Beat, I think that argument loses traction when you up the ante (i.e. abortion). I don't see it as arrogance but rather my responsibility to vote based on my belief system.

Corn, I have to admit that I share the belief that homosexuality (the act) is sin. It is the stance of the Catholic church and the belief system I subscribe to. I am not comfortable with the denouncement of Christians who "see it" differently which is what I believe Mookie took exception to. That is very judgmental. I also would have taken a different tact and the use of Leviticus in this discussion is a personal pet peeve.

Going back to your original point, I do not agree with the notion that as a Christian I am (or should be) inherently opposed to gay rights. I don't think that's true and I think that when there is a fine line between gay rights and human rights than it is probably my duty as a Christian to be pro gay rights. Just my $.02.
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Re: Colorado Expands Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby beatdrum » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:41 pm

Amazinz wrote:Beat, I think that argument loses traction when you up the ante (i.e. abortion). I don't see it as arrogance but rather my responsibility to vote based on my belief system.


Would you vote for a law that made it punishable to have sexual intercouse before marriage?
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Re: Colorado Expands Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Amazinz » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:02 pm

I would not. I wouldn't vote for a law that made homosexuality (the state of being or the act) illegal either.
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