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Verlander or Harden?

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Re: Verlander or Harden?

Postby ScrappyDoo » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:44 am

I am a Harden backer and I am thoroughly enjoying his run of success. However, I am very actively trying to trade him for a top OF. Every great start by him increases his trade value. I think he can stay healthy, the odds just aren't very good. And as much as he is helping me now I do realize I will need consistency in the playoffs. Consistency is just not one of Harden's strong points. Although I do think he will be better in the long run than Verlander, I just need to move him so I can sleep at night.
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Re: Verlander or Harden?

Postby J35J » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:49 am

ScrappyDoo wrote:I am a Harden backer and I am thoroughly enjoying his run of success. However, I am very actively trying to trade him for a top OF. Every great start by him increases his trade value. I think he can stay healthy, the odds just aren't very good. And as much as he is helping me now I do realize I will need consistency in the playoffs. Consistency is just not one of Harden's strong points. Although I do think he will be better in the long run than Verlander, I just need to move him so I can sleep at night.


:-?
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Re: Verlander or Harden?

Postby Yoda » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:51 am

ScrappyDoo wrote:I am a Harden backer and I am thoroughly enjoying his run of success. However, I am very actively trying to trade him for a top OF. Every great start by him increases his trade value. I think he can stay healthy, the odds just aren't very good. And as much as he is helping me now I do realize I will need consistency in the playoffs. Consistency is just not one of Harden's strong points. Although I do think he will be better in the long run than Verlander, I just need to move him so I can sleep at night.


You argued for Harden in the last 13 pages calling Harden bashers morons and now you are deciding to flip? We don't want you over on this side. :-D
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Re: Verlander or Harden?

Postby ScrappyDoo » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:10 am

Well, part of it is on team needs. I have Santana, Bedard, Harden, and Cliff Lee in a H2H league. My OF are Victorino, Hart, Maggs, and Hermida. I just need to make a move since Maggs is on the DL. No one seems to want Lee so Harden is the best option for improving my OF. I still think Harden will be more valuable than Verlander on the season, but lets be honest, the more IP Harden logs the better his chance of injury while at the same time distancing himself from Verlander in terms of overall fantasy numbers.

I am still on the Harden side, but I am not oblivious to his injury potential.
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Re: Verlander or Harden?

Postby ScrappyDoo » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:21 am

Yoda wrote:
ScrappyDoo wrote:I am a Harden backer and I am thoroughly enjoying his run of success. However, I am very actively trying to trade him for a top OF. Every great start by him increases his trade value. I think he can stay healthy, the odds just aren't very good. And as much as he is helping me now I do realize I will need consistency in the playoffs. Consistency is just not one of Harden's strong points. Although I do think he will be better in the long run than Verlander, I just need to move him so I can sleep at night.


You argued for Harden in the last 13 pages calling Harden bashers morons and now you are deciding to flip? We don't want you over on this side. :-D



I never called Harden bashers morons. I was pretty sure I cleared this up. I specifically said that people who wouldn't take his with their last pick as a flier are morons. Although, I am beginning to question whether you are actually a moron. I understand you know your stuff, I'm not debating that, you have around 15,000 posts, and I am not questioning your baseball knowledge. But you seem to be abrasive when there is no need, and you just argue the same things over and over again, despite the fact that I have never said I think people who are put off by Harden's injury history are morons. When people are picking minor leaguers with there last round picks and a guy like Harden is still available, its a no brainer IMO. Not many people can put up 1st round numbers for any period of time during the season, and Harden is capable of pulling off month long stretches of flat out dominance. Who wouldn't want them on their team when people are drafting Broxton and middle relievers like that.

Basically Harden is a dominant middle reliever, he just may give you the numbers in a span of a few months, rather than over the course of a season. But he has a chance of being a Cy Young caliber starter, if he can stay healthy.
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Re: Verlander or Harden?

Postby Yoda » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:25 am

ScrappyDoo wrote:
Yoda wrote:
ScrappyDoo wrote:I am a Harden backer and I am thoroughly enjoying his run of success. However, I am very actively trying to trade him for a top OF. Every great start by him increases his trade value. I think he can stay healthy, the odds just aren't very good. And as much as he is helping me now I do realize I will need consistency in the playoffs. Consistency is just not one of Harden's strong points. Although I do think he will be better in the long run than Verlander, I just need to move him so I can sleep at night.


You argued for Harden in the last 13 pages calling Harden bashers morons and now you are deciding to flip? We don't want you over on this side. :-D



I never called Harden bashers morons. I was pretty sure I cleared this up. I specifically said that people who wouldn't take his with their last pick as a flier are morons. Although, I am beginning to question whether you are actually a moron. I understand you know your stuff, I'm not debating that, you have around 15,000 posts, and I am not questioning your baseball knowledge. But you seem to be abrasive when there is no need, and you just argue the same things over and over again, despite the fact that I have never said I think people who are put off by Harden's injury history are morons. When people are picking minor leaguers with there last round picks and a guy like Harden is still available, its a no brainer IMO. Not many people can put up 1st round numbers for any period of time during the season, and Harden is capable of pulling off month long stretches of flat out dominance. Who wouldn't want them on their team when people are drafting Broxton and middle relievers like that.

Basically Harden is a dominant middle reliever, he just may give you the numbers in a span of a few months, rather than over the course of a season. But he has a chance of being a Cy Young caliber starter, if he can stay healthy.


Again, Harden was a mid round pick in most leagues unless you are in an 8 team league or less. This point needs to be emphasized over and over again since your entire argument is based on getting a 1st round pick with a late round pick which is clearly not the case here.
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Re: Verlander or Harden?

Postby Inukchuk » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:36 am

Scrappy, you should try walking on the Pats as a CB. Your backpeddling is top notch. :-D
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Re: Verlander or Harden?

Postby ScrappyDoo » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:51 am

I haven't backpedaled. I said at the start of this thread that Harden will outproduce Verlander from about June 1st or so. I still stand by that, and I still think he will outproduce him even with a DL stint or too. Since his ratios are so much better than Verlander's and he'll strike out close to twice as many people in the same amount of innings ( Assuming the 6.5 and 11 K/9 remains around the same). I just need some OF help so I am trying to trade him.

I am also aware of the fact that his ADP was 14th round or so. So I realize he didn't go undrafted in any league that is competitive, but there were people who were saying earlier this year they wouldn't touch him regardless of the circumstances. They are the only people I think are moronic, and I understand this is a hypothetical situation because someone was probably willing to take a chance on him.

And as far as trading him go. I would only get rid of him for a top 20 OF. Like a Markakis or someone in his range. But I won't dump him for peanuts. I'm in a H2H league that counts K/9, which he is in first in, and OBA which he is 3rd in the MLB behind Kazmir and Masterson, so he is that much more valuable.
Last edited by ScrappyDoo on Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Verlander or Harden?

Postby Yoda » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:54 am

ScrappyDoo wrote:I haven't backpedaled. I said at the start of this thread that Harden will outproduce Verlander from about June 1st or so. I still stand by that, and I still think he will outproduce him even with a DL stint or too. Since his ratios are so much better than Verlander's and he'll strike out close to twice as many people in the same amount of innings ( Assuming the 6.5 and 11 K/9 remains around the same). I just need some OF help so I am trying to trade him.

I am also aware of the fact that his ADP was 14th round or so. So I realize he didn't go undrafted in any league that is competitive, but there were people who were saying earlier this year they wouldn't touch him regardless of the circumstances. They are the only people I think are moronic, and I understand this is a hypothetical situation because someone was probably willing to take a chance on him.


June 10 to be exact but why let facts get in the way?
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Re: Verlander or Harden?

Postby ScrappyDoo » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:58 am

That sentence should have read:

June 10th, to be exact, but why let the facts get in the way?
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