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Cliff Lee revisited

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Re: Cliff Lee revisited

Postby Bloody Sox » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:13 pm

Extending kcs261's idiotic logic, if Randy Wolf hurled a 3-hit shutout with no walks on opening day next year, that would mean that all signs would be pointing to a career year and only an idiot would sell under any circumstances. I mean, hell - he'd have a great W/L record, a fantastic WHIP, and he had a great year back in 2002 and 2003 so that MUST mean he'd have the skills to support doing that for the next 6 months, right? You could just ignore all stats from 2004 through 2008 - those wouldn't mean a thing. :-L
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Re: Cliff Lee revisited

Postby kcs261 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:18 pm

Yoda wrote:
Bwanna wrote:If you trade Lee or Ludwick for too little (which you appear to be accusing people of), just because other people don't trust them either, you've _probably_ made a mistake. But, it's also all about risk/reward and the gamble you're willing to take their current performance continues. Some are willing to risk that, others aren't. That risk/reward gambling nature of fantasy sports is one reason we enjoy it so much.


Exactly. Risk management 101. This is why I don't get so carried away with injury prone players and waiver trash that over-perform.


The problem with calling Lee and Ludwick "waiver trash" is that the waiver wire is how you win a league. If you have played fantasy baseball for any length of time, you can draft a good team and generally players aren't going to stray far off the rankings we can all access.

But winning the WW and knowing how to spot talent is how you win your league. It's what separates the good managers from the bad. You have to be able to separate Lee and Ludwick from other guys who I rode out throw hot streaks this year who were not legit.
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Re: Cliff Lee revisited

Postby kcs261 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:19 pm

mweir145 wrote:
Bwanna wrote:mweir, would you quit beating around the bush and tell us what you really think?!?

:-b ;-D

I'm not a very patient person for such idiocy. :-]


When Lee wins the AL Cy Young and Ludwick rips off 30+ HRs and 100+ RBIs, we will see who the idiot it. :-)
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Re: Cliff Lee revisited

Postby Yoda » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:34 pm

kcs261 wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Bwanna wrote:If you trade Lee or Ludwick for too little (which you appear to be accusing people of), just because other people don't trust them either, you've _probably_ made a mistake. But, it's also all about risk/reward and the gamble you're willing to take their current performance continues. Some are willing to risk that, others aren't. That risk/reward gambling nature of fantasy sports is one reason we enjoy it so much.


Exactly. Risk management 101. This is why I don't get so carried away with injury prone players and waiver trash that over-perform.


The problem with calling Lee and Ludwick "waiver trash" is that the waiver wire is how you win a league. If you have played fantasy baseball for any length of time, you can draft a good team and generally players aren't going to stray far off the rankings we can all access.

But winning the WW and knowing how to spot talent is how you win your league. It's what separates the good managers from the bad. You have to be able to separate Lee and Ludwick from other guys who I rode out throw hot streaks this year who were not legit.


Well, it is becoming clearer that you yourself have not played fantasy baseball for any length of time. Sorry but waiver wire is not how you win a league. The draft, waivers, trades and playing the right match ups are all very integral to winning. In fact, drafting well is the most important part of the winning formula as it requires far less effort to fill the mistakes you made at the draft so that you wouldn't have to rely on waiver players like the Cliff Lees and Ryan Ludwicks of the world.

You didn't spot Lee's talent. You didn't draft him nor Ludwick. Did you even mention either of those guys as a sleeper prior to the season? My guess is no. So please stop this BS like you knew something that the rest of us didn't. There were plenty of people who thought that Lee could keep pitching well (myself for example). But I would never fault anyone for selling high even if it turns out to be the wrong move.
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Re: Cliff Lee revisited

Postby mweir145 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:13 pm

kcs261 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Bwanna wrote:mweir, would you quit beating around the bush and tell us what you really think?!?

:-b ;-D

I'm not a very patient person for such idiocy. :-]


When Lee wins the AL Cy Young and Ludwick rips off 30+ HRs and 100+ RBIs, we will see who the idiot it. :-)

Hilarious. It's like you've missed the entire point of anything I wrote. :-b
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Re: Cliff Lee revisited

Postby bigh0rt » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:32 pm

mweir145 wrote:
kcs261 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:I'm not a very patient person for such idiocy. :-]


When Lee wins the AL Cy Young and Ludwick rips off 30+ HRs and 100+ RBIs, we will see who the idiot it. :-)

Hilarious. It's like you've missed the entire point of anything I wrote. :-b

It's not like he has; he has. He is so blinded by his pride in being the white light who saw through the darkness to what no one else was able (or is able now) to see to even see what rationale is being presented. If you're noticed, I've abandoned this thread -- it's futile. Don't waste your time.
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Re: Cliff Lee revisited

Postby kcs261 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:32 pm

Hilarious. It's like you've missed the entire point of anything I wrote.


You all have not only missed the point, but you are mad that somebody is calling you out for acting like a lemming who repeats the same cliche about selling high, no matter how well a guy is doing. The point is: Winning the AL Cy Young makes a guy legit. Hitting 30 HRs and driving in 100 RBIs also makes a guy legit.

You can all whine and cry about it all day long and somehow try to spin how you were wrong, change the issue and get off on tangents by insulting. But I will not be distracted. The point is that Lee and Ludwick are legit. And to be a good fantasy manager, you have to know the difference from "waiver trash" and "waiver gems."

Lee and Ludwick are waiver gems. If you can't see that, and you label all guys who were undrafted waiver trash, you need to reevaluate how you evaluate players. Finding "waiver gems" will win you a league. :-)
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Re: Cliff Lee revisited

Postby kcs261 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:38 pm

It's not like he has; he has. He is so blinded by his pride in being the white light who saw through the darkness to what no one else was able (or is able now) to see to even see what rationale is being presented. If you're noticed, I've abandoned this thread -- it's futile. Don't waste your time.


What's futile is people calling the AL Cy Young and a 30Hr/100RBI guy "waiver trash." What's futile is hearing people say that it is wise to sell high on the AL Cy Young and a 30Hr/100RBI guy.

Somebody justify to me why it makes sense to sell high on the AL Cy Young? Somebody explain to me how it makes sense to trade a 30HR/100 RBI guy. You are all making straw man arguments and trying to argue what hasn't been argued. Selling high makes sense in some instances where the guy is waiver trash.

But selling high on Lee and Ludwick is ridiculous.
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Re: Cliff Lee revisited

Postby kcs261 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:45 pm

Well, it is becoming clearer that you yourself have not played fantasy baseball for any length of time. Sorry but waiver wire is not how you win a league. The draft, waivers, trades and playing the right match ups are all very integral to winning. In fact, drafting well is the most important part of the winning formula as it requires far less effort to fill the mistakes you made at the draft so that you wouldn't have to rely on waiver players like the Cliff Lees and Ryan Ludwicks of the world.

You didn't spot Lee's talent. You didn't draft him nor Ludwick. Did you even mention either of those guys as a sleeper prior to the season? My guess is no. So please stop this BS like you knew something that the rest of us didn't. There were plenty of people who thought that Lee could keep pitching well (myself for example). But I would never fault anyone for selling high even if it turns out to be the wrong move.


What a dopey post. The year I grabbed Felix Hernandez off the WW his first year, I won my league. The year I grabbed Jered Weaver off the waiver wire as a rookie, I contended until the very end. I grabbed Peavy off the WW as a rookie and that was a nice snag. This year, I got Aubrey Huff off the waiver wire? You think that didn't help me and was a worthless grab? How about my Cody Ross grab? Oh, yeah, I would have been better off leaving him on the WW. Yes, I also grabbed Cliff Lee off the WW and you think that didn't help me? You people are nuts and arguing the inarguable. I didn't even grab Ludwick. He isn't on my team. The point is not self justification. The point is that SO many of you just advocate sell high, sell high, sell high with reckless abandonment.

If you think you are particularly brillant giving the same used up cliches as so-called advice, you have another thing coming. Selling high makes sense if you have a guy like Mark Reynolds or Joel Pineiro. But selling high is garbage when you have a 30 HR/100 RBI guy and the Al Cy Young.

Buy, hey, I guess I can't expect everybody to evaluate talent properly, look at underlying numbers and determine the difference between waiver trash and the waiver gems. Not everybody is up to my level. I get it. And you all know darn well that for months I have been saying that Lee and Ludwick are legit. I have been making the exact same arguments. And for months, people keep spewing the same nonsense. You were all wrong. I am right. Thanks for playing. Hehe. ;-D
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Re: Cliff Lee revisited

Postby mweir145 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:52 pm

kcs261 wrote:
Hilarious. It's like you've missed the entire point of anything I wrote.


You all have not only missed the point, but you are mad that somebody is calling you out for acting like a lemming who repeats the same cliche about selling high, no matter how well a guy is doing. The point is: Winning the AL Cy Young makes a guy legit. Hitting 30 HRs and driving in 100 RBIs also makes a guy legit.

You can all whine and cry about it all day long and somehow try to spin how you were wrong, change the issue and get off on tangents by insulting. But I will not be distracted. The point is that Lee and Ludwick are legit. And to be a good fantasy manager, you have to know the difference from "waiver trash" and "waiver gems."

Lee and Ludwick are waiver gems. If you can't see that, and you label all guys who were undrafted waiver trash, you need to reevaluate how you evaluate players. Finding "waiver gems" will win you a league. :-)

I think you need to learn to read.
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